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  #61  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Three days is the extended time. The rest of the shut down is standard for party conference season.
  • It's the choice of Parliament if it wants a recess for conference season
  • Recess is different to prorogue
  • Its the longest prorogue since 1945

Anyone, of whatever political viewpoint, who thinks a PM shutting down Parliament to avoid its scrutiny is ok really needs to take a long hard look at themselves
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  #62  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Three days is the extended time. The rest of the shut down is standard for party conference season.
Which MPs had to vote to implement and were expected to reject in favour of staying in session, but keep spouting the Boris line.
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  #63  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Three days is the extended time. The rest of the shut down is standard for party conference season.
It's not three days - that was the minimum when the prorogation was announced, and assumed Parliament sat until Thursday this week.

As for Bercow; he is undoubtedly pompous with an inflated sense of self-importance - as well as an alleged bully. He certainly should have done more to tackle the bullying of staff by MPs. However, he has also been a champion for disabled children - particular autistic children and those needing speech and language therapy. And from a number of personal tributes, he has also clearly offered personal support to people in difficult times (eg - but far from the only example - the family of Jo Cox).

As for his time as Speaker - he has been a champion for the sovereignty of Parliament. It is ironic that Brexiteers, who claimed that's what they wanted, hate him so much. He gave Parliament the chance to debate the issues it wanted to and to hold the executive to account in the way that it wanted. It was Parliament who then made the decisions - eg the Benn Bill, or yesterday's SO24 humble address - not Bercow. And in that way, he was a great Speaker.

On the other hand, he's an Arsenal fan, so f**k him.
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  #64  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
He's fine with the PM shutting down Parliament for 5 weeks to avoid any scrutiny though
I haven't said that though have I.

Everyone, government, speaker, opposition, rebels etc are using parliamentary protocol and procedure to the extreme. The problem is for most on here when it is 'their team' it is ok and when it is not it is outrageous.

IMO last night Parliament threw the civil service under the bus in the name of Brexit.

This Parliament is not fit for purpose.
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  #65  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fang View Post
Would a discussion of the proroguing have stopped it?
No. They were going well into the early hours of this morning with the business they had to conclude.
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  #66  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruskin Old Boy View Post
The convention was that the two main parties alternated the role of Speaker (whether in Government or Opposition was irrelevant).

The convention was broken by Labour in 2000.
Ah thankyou. I knew there was a convention.

Lindsay Hoyle i think was favourite for it yesterday and has officially thrown his hat into the ring now.
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  #67  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:20 AM
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Harriet Harman now announced she's running
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  #68  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
Any shutdown beyond a few days is unjustifiable, considering the timeframe and current crisis. You're an idiot or a rabid brexiter if you think it is.
It is 3 days.

Remainers will argue and do that Parliament would have cancelled the conference recess. However there were no statements from the opposition prior to the decision that this was a likely course. They also could have cancelled or reduced the summer recess but voted overwhelmingly for the full length.

If you take the usual sitting days and you take out what would usually constitute the conference recess then Parliament is not sitting for only a few extra days.

As i said in above post, if parliamentary procedure is being stretched to suit your agenda it is fine but when it goes against it is an outrage.
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  #69  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:26 AM
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He said parliament should evolve and not be bound by precedent, then found a 400 year old parliamentary rule to get his way.

The guy’s a hypocrite. Personification of ‘do as I say, not as I do’.
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  #70  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
It is 3 days.

Remainers will argue and do that Parliament would have cancelled the conference recess. However there were no statements from the opposition prior to the decision that this was a likely course. They also could have cancelled or reduced the summer recess but voted overwhelmingly for the full length.

If you take the usual sitting days and you take out what would usually constitute the conference recess then Parliament is not sitting for only a few extra days.

As i said in above post, if parliamentary procedure is being stretched to suit your agenda it is fine but when it goes against it is an outrage.
Weren't you going to look up the difference between prorogue and recess?
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  #71  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Weren't you going to look up the difference between prorogue and recess?
I know the difference. I have not said there is not a difference, in fact the opposite.

If you want to start picking people up personally on things you really need to check they have said what you claim!

Are you trying for a career in politics?
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  #72  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
It is 3 days..
No it's not - it's at least six days. We've lost three days this week, plus there's an extra week (which probably would have been Tuesday - Thursday) after conferences (Conference recess is normally three weeks). Plus, of course, the Queen's Speech and associated debates will take all the Parliamentary time when they eventually return.

Also - in what way has Parliament thrown the Civil Service under a bus?
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  #73  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:49 AM
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Unfortunately, although on the positive side Bercow has undertaken some good initiatives supporting backbenchers and doing some charity work, his egotistic Character and thirst for attention has been one of the key factors in creating the chaotic and circus like atmosphere in Parliament. Add to that his self declared impartiality and he has almost Single handedly turned Parliament into an international laughing stock.In Germany he has more followers than Monty python apparently. I feel certain that with Betty Boothroyd or Bernard Wetherill in the chair, Parliament and the subject of Brexit would have been handled in the more orderly and serious manner it deserved.

Add to that the fact I saw him at Palace last year dressed like a tramp and wearing a Gooners scarf when we played them and I think my point is proven.
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  #74  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
No it's not - it's at least six days. We've lost three days this week, plus there's an extra week (which probably would have been Tuesday - Thursday) after conferences (Conference recess is normally three weeks). Plus, of course, the Queen's Speech and associated debates will take all the Parliamentary time when they eventually return.

Also - in what way has Parliament thrown the Civil Service under a bus?
Yes you are right, because he did it yesterday it is now 6 days which is not unusual and nor is the queens speech taking up the best part of a week when it returns unusual.

You are better placed than I but my understanding is that advice ministers receive from civil servants is usually held to be confidential. My understanding is that the Grieve motion last night forces the government to publish all advice from civil servants, meaning anything they give in future may also be published on request.
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  #75  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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Don't let Brexiteers bog you down in arguing the nuances. Johnson is shutting Parliament down in order to try and get his way because he (and the ERG'ers) don't like the fact that Parliament is holding him/them to account - a Parliament empowered to do so by Bercow. Everybody knows and can see it.

There will come a point in the future where those of a less tolerant bent are saved by the increased influence Parliament has been given these past years, and not even realise/ acknowledge that this was down to the current Speaker being willing to stick his neck out and devolve influence.

Take back Control - but only when it suits my agenda.
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  #76  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
No it's not - it's at least six days. We've lost three days this week, plus there's an extra week (which probably would have been Tuesday - Thursday) after conferences (Conference recess is normally three weeks). Plus, of course, the Queen's Speech and associated debates will take all the Parliamentary time when they eventually return.

Also - in what way has Parliament thrown the Civil Service under a bus?
I think he thinks that Cummings and the political advisors being asked to fess up to their plotting messages are part of the civil service?
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  #77  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Harriet Harman now announced she's running
God help us. That's the same Harriet Harman who campaigned avidly to remain in the EU but couldn't give the interviewer the name of even one person in the top five positions in the EU. We need someone calm with less profile and no point to prove. Maybe there should be a people's vote on it? Surely we could vote in someone better then Bercow or Her.
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  #78  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Yes you are right, because he did it yesterday it is now 6 days which is not unusual and nor is the queens speech taking up the best part of a week when it returns unusual.
The length of this prorogation is unusual - it is, pretty much, unprecedented. And yes, of course the Queen's Speech taking up that much time is not unusual, but they are not normally called at a time of national crisis as a tactic to stop Parliament debating the crisis facing the nation.
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  #79  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
........The problem is for most on here when it is 'their team' it is ok and when it is not it is outrageous.....

Ha ha ha I cannot believe you have even said this.
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  #80  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I know the difference. I have not said there is not a difference, in fact the opposite.

If you want to start picking people up personally on things you really need to check they have said what you claim!

Are you trying for a career in politics?
Then stop parroting the line that it's only an extra couple of days. It completely shuts down all Parliamentary activities- that doesnt happen during recess.
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