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  #41  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:31 AM
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Interesting

Do we know what new information, if any, has come to light in order for the previous ruling that it wasnt illegal, to be overturned ?
I don't think so. I think the original judgment was that the court had no remit to review the decision, as it was a matter of policy and political judgment. The appeal judges disagreed, so did review the decision and found it unlawful.
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  #43  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
I don't think so. I think the original judgment was that the court had no remit to review the decision, as it was a matter of policy and political judgment. The appeal judges disagreed, so did review the decision and found it unlawful.
Ok, thanks

Id bet a pound to a penny it gets overturned in the SC...
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  #44  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Ok, thanks

Id bet a pound to a penny it gets overturned in the SC...
I expect so, too. But that will (I think) be on the basis that the Court doesn't have a remit on high policy/political decisions. The basic conclusion that Johnson lied about the reasons for prorogation will remain.
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  #45  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
I expect so, too. But that will (I think) be on the basis that the Court doesn't have a remit on high policy/political decisions. The basic conclusion that Johnson lied about the reasons for prorogation will remain.
If your last sentence is proved then the advice given to the queen is invalid and prorogation can be over-turned though i thought.
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  #46  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
If your last sentence is proved then the advice given to the queen is invalid and prorogation can be over-turned though i thought.
The Scottish judges have said he lied, so yes that's their reasoning (I think)
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  #47  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
"Pog mo thoin, Gloucester, United Kingdom, less than a minute ago

We English, we don't recognise the Scottish court. What are they going to do? You can't rule over whay happens on ENGLISH soil."
The Westminster Parliament has competence in Scotland over reserved matters. Brexit is a reseved matter.
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  #48  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
If your last sentence is proved then the advice given to the queen is invalid and prorogation can be over-turned though i thought.
The Scottish Court have already found that.

As I understand it, both the original Scottish Court decision and the English Court decision were based on the Court having no jurisdiction in the decision, so dismissing at that stage and not making any further judgment. I expect Tuesday's hearing will do the same - so the only legal judgment on the actual advice will remain today's.
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  #49  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I imagine appeals would be heard immediately and swiftly.


But first they need to give grounds for appeal and also permission. This is is Supreme Court, and you can't just appeal if you don't like a decision : you need to show definitive cause.
And ironically appeal to the European Court of Justice I believe...
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  #50  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chateauferret View Post
The Westminster Parliament has competence in Scotland over reserved matters. Brexit is a reseved matter.
But this is a Court decision, not a Parliamentary one.
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  #51  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
The Scottish Court have already found that.

As I understand it, both the original Scottish Court decision and the English Court decision were based on the Court having no jurisdiction in the decision, so dismissing at that stage and not making any further judgment. I expect Tuesday's hearing will do the same - so the only legal judgment on the actual advice will remain today's.
My understanding though is that if that can be proved, then a judicial review on the advice to the queen can be sought.

Still haven't heard or read anything about the conference recess though. If the MP's do have any success have they said they will vote against a conference recess? They will surely have to.
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  #52  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:56 AM
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If the supreme court uphold the Scottish decision, then potentially the Prime Minister, could face charges relating malfiesence in public office.

I don't think parliment can be recalled, unless the Supreme court rules (and it previously ruled that the Prime Ministers actions were legal - based on Gina Millers application - currently due for appeal).

But there is a real danger here for Boris Johnson, if it can be demonstrated that he abused power for political advantage by peroguing parliment for false reasons, which should result in the end of his political career and imprisonment.
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  #53  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:57 AM
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There is a disagreement, Scotland highest Court says illegal, England's High Court says it is legal, it is already going before the Supreme court next week.
Where's Harry Hill when you need him?
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  #54  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
If the supreme court uphold the Scottish decision, then potentially the Prime Minister, could face charges relating malfiesence in public office.

I don't think parliment can be recalled, unless the Supreme court rules (and it previously ruled that the Prime Ministers actions were legal - based on Gina Millers application - currently due for appeal).

But there is a real danger here for Boris Johnson, if it can be demonstrated that he abused power for political advantage by peroguing parliment for false reasons, which should result in the end of his political career and imprisonment.
Gina Millers case was in the High Court was it not? She is now appealing it to the supreme court which is the case already due next week i thought.
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  #55  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:01 AM
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Just waiting for Dominic Grieve to produce some documents.
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  #56  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
The Scottish Court have already found that.

As I understand it, both the original Scottish Court decision and the English Court decision were based on the Court having no jurisdiction in the decision, so dismissing at that stage and not making any further judgment. I expect Tuesday's hearing will do the same - so the only legal judgment on the actual advice will remain today's.
The concern here for conservatives should be what evidence was presented, that allowed the court of appeal to rule that the use of perogation was unlawful - Prospectively, that is much more interesting than the jurisdiction. Such evidence could present grounds for a case directly against the PM and those who were aware, of malefience related charges and potentially being suspended from the House and facing expulsions etc.
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  #57  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The concern here for conservatives should be what evidence was presented, that allowed the court of appeal to rule that the use of perogation was unlawful - Prospectively, that is much more interesting than the jurisdiction. Such evidence could present grounds for a case directly against the PM and those who were aware, of malefience related charges and potentially being suspended from the House and facing expulsions etc.
I like your reasoning.
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  #58  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:08 AM
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It's surely more about chokey for Johnson, isn't it? Can't see the dates allowing for much shortening of the prorogue of Parliament. And really it is much bigger than that, and much bigger than Brexit.
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  #59  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:12 AM
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I am not sure on legal terminology but I understand that today's legal ruling in Scotland will be presented together with the appeal from the the Miller case to the supreme court.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:14 AM
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I am not sure on legal terminology but I understand that today's legal ruling in Scotland will be presented together with the appeal from the the Miller case to the supreme court.
Yes, they should all be rolled-up into one given that it is effectively the same point of law being determined.
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