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  #21  
Old 15-09-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
What a dishonest man, East Surrey has voted a conservative candidate in since 1918 regardless of who it is, they have always collected at least 50% of the vote and always had a majority of at least 11k and always more than the total vote cast for their nearest rival. The constituents have made it very clear that they want a conservative MP.

Sam Gyimah crossing the floor shows a huge disrespect for the people who voted for him, I donít think that there is clearer example of an MP not representing the people that give him his livelihood and trust him to represent their views in Parliament.

He should stand down if he is not happy with the government and then see how well he does as a Lib Dem candidate in East Surrey.
He wasn't a tory. Boris kicked him out you goon.
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  #22  
Old 15-09-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
What a dishonest man, East Surrey has voted a conservative candidate in since 1918 regardless of who it is, they have always collected at least 50% of the vote and always had a majority of at least 11k and always more than the total vote cast for their nearest rival. The constituents have made it very clear that they want a conservative MP.

Sam Gyimah crossing the floor shows a huge disrespect for the people who voted for him, I donít think that there is clearer example of an MP not representing the people that give him his livelihood and trust him to represent their views in Parliament.

He should stand down if he is not happy with the government and then see how well he does as a Lib Dem candidate in East Surrey.
Agreed in all these cases there should be an immediate by-election. They all show disrespect for the party on whose manifesto and organisation they got in to parliament. But in particular they disrespect the voters/public who put them there.

If this was the case the Lib Dems would not have so many MP's. Still I guess the truth will out in a General Election.
There are examples of this for both the main parties and it's wrong.
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  #23  
Old 15-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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My MP. Good Riddance
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  #24  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
If there was an election in East Surrey tomorrow regardless of who stood for them or what the party represented the Tory would win with a massive majority. The people of East Surrey want a conservative MP come what may, the current MO knows that and has acted against the will of the people who voted for him.

Regardless of what anyone’s views are on the conservatives or on Brexit is there anyone here that can actually argue that either th people he represents would be happy with him becoming a LibDem or that if there was a by-election tomorrow the Tory would lose ?

Please keep your Brexit argument in the correct thread this is about whether an MP should be allowed to just change party and keep their seat when they have a huge majority and their party has won the seat for 100 years .
But if there were a by-election in East Surrey tomorrow the party would put up another Boris sycophant instead of a real MP candidate who would actually represent his constituents.

There ought to be a by-election but if the constituents are then stupid enough to vote for the party's candidate without seeing past the Tory label they will get the MP they deserve.

This Tory party is not the Tory party of the last 100 years or even the one that won the last general election. It is an unprincipled band of gangsters headed up by a proven liar, hypocrite and bully who will not allow those who disagree with him to be heard.
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  #25  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
Correct me if Iím wrong...(Iím not)

Sam Gyimah actually had the whip removed from him by the genius team of Johnson Cummings for voting against the government. Something which Johnson, Patel, Rees Mogg etc. did frequently themselves without punishment.

Ergo, they decide that they didnít want him in the Tory party anymore.

Therefore what would you have him do? Cry to be let back in or vote with his feet?
Vote with his feet and stand down call a by-election stand for the lib dems if the people who voted him in agree with him and disagree with the party he will be voted back in regardless of the party.
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  #26  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by chateauferret View Post
But if there were a by-election in East Surrey tomorrow the party would put up another Boris sycophant instead of a real MP candidate who would actually represent his constituents.
Then is that not the right of the constituents to decide if that is what they want ? Just because they have a different view to you does not mean they should not be able to decide who they want in should it ?
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  #27  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Then is that not the right of the constituents to decide if that is what they want ? Just because they have a different view to you does not mean they should not be able to decide who they want in should it ?
Do you think we should have a 2nd referendum?
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  #28  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
My MP. Good Riddance

He's still your M.P.
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  #29  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Then is that not the right of the constituents to decide if that is what they want ? Just because they have a different view to you does not mean they should not be able to decide who they want in should it ?
That is true, but the point is the Boris yes man will be presented as a proper Tory with a Tory party badge and it will be another Boris lie.

If as the OP suggests the constituents continue to want a real Conservative how are they going to choose one if he isn't allowed to stand? Anyone who presented himself as a "real" Tory in an independent capacity would be steamrollered by the Boris propaganda machine, threatened and bullied, and if elected would obviously not have the Tory whip.

The constituents don't just want a true Tory MP, they want a true Tory party, and that no longer exists.
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  #30  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:42 AM
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He's still your M.P.
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  #31  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:45 AM
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If memory serves he was the only Tory leadership candidate that backed a second referendum (kind of I think he wanted May's deal v No deal on the ballot).

I think its okay for them not to hold byelections until Brexit is dealt with one way or the other as you can't take representation away from people at such a crucial time and even if I disagreed it would be silly to get upset over this as a we are talking months not years until the next general election.

East Surrey isn't winnable, Tory majority is too high. They're going to have to find him a seat in the shire counties or the west country.
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  #32  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Skin Up View Post
If memory serves he was the only Tory leadership candidate that backed a second referendum (kind of I think he wanted May's deal v No deal on the ballot).

I think its okay for them not to hold byelections until Brexit is dealt with one way or the other as you can't take representation away from people at such a crucial time and even if I disagreed it would be silly to get upset over this as a we are talking months not years until the next general election.
Didn't Boris already do that?
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  #33  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe85 View Post
Do you think we should have a 2nd referendum?
Yes
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  #34  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:48 AM
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He's my MP too and it'll go down like a lead balloon. They'd vote for a dead dog with a blue rosette around here. If he stood as a Lib Dem here in the next election I'd be amazed if he came anyway near the replacement Tory candidate. In 2017 the Tories got 60% of the vote, Labour and the Lib Dems got 30% combined with the LDs coming in third.
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  #35  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chateauferret View Post
That is true, but the point is the Boris yes man will be presented as a proper Tory with a Tory party badge and it will be another Boris lie.

If as the OP suggests the constituents continue to want a real Conservative how are they going to choose one if he isn't allowed to stand? Anyone who presented himself as a "real" Tory in an independent capacity would be steamrollered by the Boris propaganda machine, threatened and bullied, and if elected would obviously not have the Tory whip.

The constituents don't just want a true Tory MP, they want a true Tory party, and that no longer exists.
Doesnít the local Conservative party choose the conservative candidate, I didnít think that the PM selected or even had power to select a candidate over the local party.
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  #36  
Old 15-09-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Doesn’t the local Conservative party choose the conservative candidate, I didn’t think that the PM selected or even had power to select a candidate over the local party.
What do you think would happen if the local Party chairman selected a candidate who wouldn't salute and shout "Hail Boris" when required?
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  #37  
Old 15-09-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
If there was an election in East Surrey tomorrow regardless of who stood for them or what the party represented the Tory would win with a massive majority. The people of East Surrey want a conservative MP come what may, the current MO knows that and has acted against the will of the people who voted for him.

Regardless of what anyoneís views are on the conservatives or on Brexit is there anyone here that can actually argue that either th people he represents would be happy with him becoming a LibDem or that if there was a by-election tomorrow the Tory would lose ?

Please keep your Brexit argument in the correct thread this is about whether an MP should be allowed to just change party and keep their seat when they have a huge majority and their party has won the seat for 100 years .
so despite the froth what do you think will change in they way he represents his constituency. you are getting in to a lather about labels. IMO.
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  #38  
Old 15-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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He's still your M.P.
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  #39  
Old 15-09-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
If there was an election in East Surrey tomorrow regardless of who stood for them or what the party represented the Tory would win with a massive majority. The people of East Surrey want a conservative MP come what may, the current MO knows that and has acted against the will of the people who voted for him.

Regardless of what anyoneís views are on the conservatives or on Brexit is there anyone here that can actually argue that either th people he represents would be happy with him becoming a LibDem or that if there was a by-election tomorrow the Tory would lose ?

Please keep your Brexit argument in the correct thread this is about whether an MP should be allowed to just change party and keep their seat when they have a huge majority and their party has won the seat for 100 years .
Under normal circumstances I would agree with you, and for precisely the reasons you state. But in the particular circumstances we are talking about (and actually I don't mean Brexit, at least not dircectly), I don't think that's the case.

As it stands at the moment, we all expect there to be an election in the next couple of Months. So by making this decision now, he is in effect saying "this is how I see things. If you think I'm wrong, you can vote me out". That opportunity is likely to come in November (or December at the latest). And with parliament currently prorogued, combined with a likely pre general election shutdown, the opportunity for MPs to do anything in parliament between now and a general election are minimal.

In those circumstances, to have an East Surrey by election only a few weeks before a likely National poll is just farcical, and it's perfectly reasonable to sit tight for a few weeks and let his constituents have their say at that point. Of course, if a picture emerges where this parliament / government looks likely to go on longer without an election, then you are right. He (like everyone who has crossed the house recently) should trigger a by election and allow their constituents to have their say. But to do that so close to a likely GE is just silly imho.
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  #40  
Old 15-09-2019, 10:41 AM
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Arent you lucky we have an election every 5 years (or more often) so if you've changed your mind about the person you voted for last time then you can vote for someone different
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