Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Ľ Off Topic Ľ The Politics Forum

Notices

The Politics Forum Discussions that are wholly or mainly concerned with UK politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:42 AM
SA Eagle's Avatar
SA Eagle SA Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Here, There, Every*******where
Age: 49
Posts: 8,500
Rep Power: 21474853
SA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is hereSA Eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
No, regulators are proving toothless and normally bound by political interference.

Ministers like to wash their hands of their responsibilities by giving them up to regulators - who in energy and health and schools are either useless or driven by a narrow number of metrics.
I can’t work out whether you want political involvement or not; surely if ministers have washed their hands of responsibility there’s little interference. EDIT - should have read on, Steve’s made the same point

Of none of that matters, as you’ll blindly support this policy come what may as it comes from Corbyn’s Labour.
__________________
As you type you don't realise that you are crying until you feel and see the tears on your hands.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:42 AM
Yoda Yoda is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10,944
Rep Power: 21474843
Yoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is hereYoda Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by fang View Post
The problem with OFSTED is that it appears dominate everything in schools. The individual educational needs of pupils, their pastoral needs, staff moral, everything takes second place to preparing for the next inspection.
Well if all those elements that youíve listed were ignored by the school or very weak, then the sooner that school had an independent inspection done the better donít you think!

In my experience of an inspection at the junior school and then the senior school that my son has attended, part of the inspection included random surveys of the whole school community, including staff and parents. This feedback and anonymous quotes are then featured in the report and its conclusions.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:43 AM
Reps AJ's Avatar
Reps AJ Reps AJ is offline
Climbing for dollars
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere you're not
Posts: 14,425
Rep Power: 21474855
Reps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Who is going to check that all these policies are up to date etc? Do you not think schools should be held accountable in some way? (I'm not saying change isn't needed or merited, just asking what any new system would be.)
I dont think they were arguing in favour of scraping OFSTED if I've read it correctly. It was about how schools view OFSTED inspections

Last edited by Reps AJ; 22-09-2019 at 08:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:43 AM
Anneseagles Anneseagles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 357
Rep Power: 4515634
Anneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Who is going to check that all these policies are up to date etc? Do you not think schools should be held accountable?
They are published on the schools website so they are available for all parents to see at any time and have a start and next review date on them. The Governing body of a school also have a responsibility to ensure policies are up to date and being followed by the school.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:46 AM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 55
Posts: 11,804
Rep Power: 21474851
Baffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
In my experience of an inspection at the junior school and then the senior school that my son has attended, part of the inspection included random surveys of the whole school community, including staff and parents. This feedback and anonymous quotes are then featured in the report and its conclusions.
Exactly my recollection.
__________________
Lance Corporal - Never Had it So Good Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:49 AM
mte103 mte103 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 222
Rep Power: 1910418
mte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minemte103 : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
My wife is a teacher. Once an inspection is known to be upcoming, it dominates everything until it happens, which can be weeks or months.

Ask any teacher: they spend most of their time ticking boxes for when someone reviews a book to show they've ticked the box, and not on what most people would think are value adding.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:49 AM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 55
Posts: 11,804
Rep Power: 21474851
Baffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anneseagles View Post
They are published on the schools website so they are available for all parents to see at any time and have a start and next review date on them.
But is that enough? I must say if my kids were still at school I'd be happier to know someone is independently monitoring, say, anti bullying policies.
__________________
Lance Corporal - Never Had it So Good Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:51 AM
Anneseagles Anneseagles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 357
Rep Power: 4515634
Anneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
I dont think he was arguing in favour of scraping OFSTED if I've read it correctly. It was about how schools view OFSTED inspections
Yes, that is what I was trying to show. Schools should be regularly inspected as well as unannounced inspections for child protection issues.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:51 AM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 55
Posts: 11,804
Rep Power: 21474851
Baffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by mte103 View Post
My wife is a teacher. Once an inspection is known to be upcoming, it dominates everything until it happens, which can be weeks or months.
.
But why does it dominate everything?
__________________
Lance Corporal - Never Had it So Good Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:52 AM
Reps AJ's Avatar
Reps AJ Reps AJ is offline
Climbing for dollars
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere you're not
Posts: 14,425
Rep Power: 21474855
Reps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by mte103 View Post
My wife is a teacher. Once an inspection is known to be upcoming, it dominates everything until it happens, which can be weeks or months.

Ask any teacher: they spend most of their time ticking boxes for when someone reviews a book to show they've ticked the box, and not on what most people would think are value adding.
Change inspections to 24 hours notice or no notice. It no longer dominates everything for weeks or months.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 22-09-2019, 08:59 AM
fang's Avatar
fang fang is offline
Up On The Triangle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,185
Rep Power: 21474850
fang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
But why does it dominate everything?
Because teachers reputations, even their tenure, can be dependent on the outcome.

'Acadamisation' has exacerbated this because the reputation of academy chains is also at stake, which means that schools come under the direct pressure and intervention of those managing the chains.
__________________
"This is what we find, This is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind"
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:00 AM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 55
Posts: 11,804
Rep Power: 21474851
Baffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by fang View Post
Because teachers reputations, even their tenure, can be dependent on the outcome.
.
But doesn't that apply to all of us who work?
__________________
Lance Corporal - Never Had it So Good Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:01 AM
Reps AJ's Avatar
Reps AJ Reps AJ is offline
Climbing for dollars
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere you're not
Posts: 14,425
Rep Power: 21474855
Reps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is here
Just read the very brief article on the BBC that talks about this policy and it says Labour thinks OFSTED is ot fit for purpose and they are going to replace it with a different inspection system.

The BBC fails to mention what the issues are with OFSTED inspections or how these will be remedied with the new system or why a national system of independent inspectors is a bad idea.

Anyone got any ideas?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:04 AM
Anneseagles Anneseagles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 357
Rep Power: 4515634
Anneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietAnneseagles came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
The schools are notified of an inspection by the lead inspector at around midday of the working day before the inspection starts, so they already have less than 24 hours notice. The school will get a phone call about 15 minutes before an unannounced inspection.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:05 AM
beef's Avatar
beef beef is offline
substitute
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 17,102
Rep Power: 21474851
beef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is herebeef Sam the man is here
Some schools haven't had an ofsted inspection for a decade as well. Does seem a bit odd considering a school can change fundamentally from year to year. Especially with record numbers leaving the profession.

I have to say leaving was one of the best things my wife ever did. The workload, snotty emails from parents, stress, 14 hour days, lost weekends and robotic upper management are not worth it for the 5% of time where you can actually help students.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:06 AM
fang's Avatar
fang fang is offline
Up On The Triangle
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,185
Rep Power: 21474850
fang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is herefang Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
But doesn't that apply to all of us who work?
The issue is in the part of my post you haven't quoted. The pursuit of reputation above all else.
__________________
"This is what we find, This is what we find, the hope that springs eternal, springs right up your behind"
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:08 AM
Johnsonpen Johnsonpen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 333
Rep Power: 4277075
Johnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down low
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
It really depends on what their plans are to replace it. And it's important not to forget that Ofsted don't only inspect schools - they also inspect childcare, local authority children's services and (with CQC) the implementation of the special educational needs and disability reforms (and probably other things I've forgotten about).
FE and Sixth form Colleges, Adult Ed, training providers offering apprenticeships and duty of care in the armed forces.

I have worked for every inspectorate in these areas and was forced into Ofsted who were by far the worst of the four I worked for. Giving someone the title 'HMI' does not make them an expert in education or give them the ability to give sound improvement advice. They are too soft on schools and you cannot trust that outstanding awarded by them is anywhere near that mark. There has to be some independent inspection element or things will slide, but Ofsted is too big and as a result no good at any of the things that it does anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:10 AM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 55
Posts: 11,804
Rep Power: 21474851
Baffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is hereBaffled Bob 2 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by fang View Post
The issue is in the part of my post you haven't quoted. The pursuit of reputation above all else.
Apologies. I really wasn't being disingenuous. There does seem to be an issue with some of these academies. I am wary of binning the whole academy project. Some seem to be successful. Some less so. Other than an independent regulator I can think of no way than telling them apart.
__________________
Lance Corporal - Never Had it So Good Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:14 AM
Johnsonpen Johnsonpen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 333
Rep Power: 4277075
Johnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down lowJohnsonpen will cross the room to turn the lights down low
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Change inspections to 24 hours notice or no notice. It no longer dominates everything for weeks or months.
I now work with the people I used to inspect and those who are really good do not worry about inspection because they don't have to. As others have said the notice period is never more than 48 hours. If they see good teaching and learning there is nothing to worry about but too many schools send their troublesome kids off when inspection happens and work to get kids who might fail excluded to boost their pass rates.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:14 AM
Billyd's Avatar
Billyd Billyd is offline
EAGLES
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17,918
Rep Power: 21474854
Billyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is hereBillyd Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Change inspections to 24 hours notice or no notice. It no longer dominates everything for weeks or months.
It is 48 hours notice. I teach PE in Primary.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.