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  #41  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Apologies. I really wasn't being disingenuous. There does seem to be an issue with some of these academies. I am wary of binning the whole academy project. Some seem to be successful. Some less so. Other than an independent regulator I can think of no way than telling them apart.
Agreed. I do believe you will need some form of regulation/oversight and I'm not sure the Labour proposal is to do away with it altogether.

My regret is that Academies and the separation of schools from local accountability, has gone hand in hand with a change in the ethos of schools and their management.
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  #42  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:23 AM
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My regret is that Academies and the separation of schools from local accountability, has gone hand in hand with a change in the ethos of schools and their management.
Basically they've become selective by the back door, either on economic and/or religious grounds. And they can now happily teach creationism as fact, as far as I can see.
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  #43  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:26 AM
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It is 48 hours notice. I teach PE in Primary.
Ok, good.

Now I'm confused by this post, which is the one that prompted my suggestion

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My wife is a teacher. Once an inspection is known to be upcoming, it dominates everything until it happens, which can be weeks or months.
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  #44  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:27 AM
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My wife is a teacher. Once an inspection is known to be upcoming, it dominates everything until it happens, which can be weeks or months.

Ask any teacher: they spend most of their time ticking boxes for when someone reviews a book to show they've ticked the box, and not on what most people would think are value adding.
Schools only get a few days notice of an inspection. It can be quicker than that in certain circumstances.

Teachers, as part of their job, do have to keep records of their pupilsí learning etc anyway, regardless of whether an inspection is due. They need to be aware of the pupilsí milestones etc.

It sounds like your wifeís school has reduced that to a tick box culture of minutiae which is more of an issue with her school leadership. However, it is true that an inspector could ask to see the work of any of the teachers, so they do need to have their paperwork at least reasonably up-to-date, which sounds sensible to me anyway.

I believe the unions feel there is too much paperwork, so this is something that probably does need to be looked at. But simply abolishing OFSTED and replacing that with local authority checks wonít necessarily reduce paperwork. It could get worse!
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  #45  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:30 AM
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Ok, good.

Now I'm confused by this post, which is the one that prompted my suggestion
Because inspections are still on a schedule, so schools know when they are due for one, even if they don't know exactly when it will be.
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  #46  
Old 22-09-2019, 09:32 AM
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Arguably, the problem is not Ofsted and its inspections, but what they result it. A poor inspection outcome has such dire consequences for schools and head teachers - and that's what drives the fear and behaviour described in this thread.
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  #47  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:04 AM
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Arguably, the problem is not Ofsted and its inspections, but what they result it. A poor inspection outcome has such dire consequences for schools and head teachers - and that's what drives the fear and behaviour described in this thread.
But it can also trigger special measures and the parachuting in of support that the school needs, thus resulting in improvements that the pupils require/deserve. What would have happened without the inspection?

So Iíd argue that the problem is not OFSTED, but that some schools donít get the assistance they need.

Plus the Senior Management Team of schools does vary in quality. As do the teachers. Iím usually a supporter of teachers, but I have come across some duff ones. Just as in other careers, some need support to improve but some arenít suited to teaching. The Ďfearí of an impending inspection can give them a kick up the arse they need.
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  #48  
Old 22-09-2019, 12:13 PM
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Academies should be scrapped.

OFSTED is a terrible organisation. I was speaking to an OFSTED inspector a few months back who basically said as much. It’s hated by teachers, head teachers and teaching assistants.

It creates huge amounts of pressure for both teaching staff and pupils with little evidence that it is doing much good.

The big issue in education is the lack of funding and cuts. Followed by academies who are often run by crack pots.
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  #49  
Old 22-09-2019, 12:18 PM
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Also if you speak to teachers a lot of them say that you can tell very little from OFSTED marks or indeed open days.

You get a lot of head teachers who are sociopaths and a lot of behaviour that goes on the parents have no idea about.
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  #50  
Old 22-09-2019, 12:22 PM
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You get a lot of head teachers who are sociopaths
What a bizarre generalisation.
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  #51  
Old 22-09-2019, 12:56 PM
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What a bizarre generalisation.
Not really loads of studies have shown there are a disproportionate amount of sociopaths at the top of organisations.

Teachers Iíve spoken to, which is quite a lot through union work, all seem to say the same thing. Some of the things Iíve been told about behaviour from head is outright disturbing. And academies have made it worse it seems.
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  #52  
Old 22-09-2019, 01:03 PM
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Ok, good.

Now I'm confused by this post, which is the one that prompted my suggestion
Yeah, as someone says, they seem to be on a timetable. I don't know how as I was never interested enough to ask, but her school knew about it for a good five weeks before it happened during which time they knew it was going to be happening soon.

I don't really have any skin in the game, and don't have strong views about Ofsted, but from what I've seen of how schools prepare for them has made me think:

a) Staff being made to do the extra work for it cannot be good;
b) The results are being skewed anyway.

It clearly is or has become an adversarial process (or at least is percevied as such) and is being gamed and I think it's worth looking at - not necessarily abolition though.
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  #53  
Old 22-09-2019, 01:49 PM
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An utterly inept policy decision. If Angela Rayner becomes education minister, god help us
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  #54  
Old 22-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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No, regulators are proving toothless and normally bound by political interference.

Ministers like to wash their hands of their responsibilities by giving them up to regulators - who in energy and health and schools are either useless or driven by a narrow number of metrics.
however more political interference (if labour get in power and do abolish it) is no guarantee of improving outcomes for schools. Local Authorities who are already dealing with huge pressures can not seriously be expected to pick up the slack.
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  #55  
Old 22-09-2019, 04:15 PM
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But why does it dominate everything?
Audit culture...
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  #56  
Old 22-09-2019, 04:17 PM
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Not really loads of studies have shown there are a disproportionate amount of sociopaths at the top of organisations.

Teachers Iíve spoken to, which is quite a lot through union work, all seem to say the same thing. Some of the things Iíve been told about behaviour from head is outright disturbing. And academies have made it worse it seems.
Bizarre.
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Old 22-09-2019, 05:03 PM
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Not really loads of studies have shown there are a disproportionate amount of sociopaths at the top of organisations.

Teachers Iíve spoken to, which is quite a lot through union work, all seem to say the same thing. Some of the things Iíve been told about behaviour from head is outright disturbing. And academies have made it worse it seems.
Loads of studies show head teachers are sociopaths? Can you provide any evidence of that at all? Or have you just flung some shit at a wall in the hope that some will stick?

When my kids were at school some of the heads were good. Some not so. But none were sociopathic and all had the best interest of the children at heart.
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  #58  
Old 22-09-2019, 05:17 PM
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I think CR is referring to studies that show many top managers have elements of sociopathy about them ; that in certain industries this mix is almost a requirement to succeed.


He has then - unwisely imo - translated that into a) ∴ many top managers are sociopaths and b) ∴ many headteachers are also sociopaths.


It's a logic chain with many weak elements! .
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  #59  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:06 PM
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Maz might be correct that it’s unwise but it’s not based on nothing.

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Now I accept the world of business is almost certainly worse that education in terms of those traits. But I still think the drive for power and top jobs means it will still apply.

This goes hand in hand with what lots of teachers have told me. As said some of it, in terms of how staff, and to a lesser but still significant degree pupils, are treated I have found outright disturbing. And in all those cases they said the parents would be totally unaware. The bullying of staff in many schools is terrible.

If you want to dismiss what I’m saying then fair enough, but it comes from an honest view point.

As an aside I think the continual pressure of tests is awful. They are now doing trials for tests for kids in reception classes and not telling parents. I’ve just found out, after we really pushed them on the issue, that my daughters school is doing those trials. I think the relentless testing has contributed to a deterioration in mental health for children.

So much of teaching now is about stats, form filling and bureaucracy. And OFSTED is very much part of that.
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Old 22-09-2019, 06:09 PM
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The £60 fines for unauthorised absence are also disgusting. It is up to head whether to apply them but if they do you have no right of appeal. After 21 days it goes to £120 and after that you’re in court. Of course this has a disproportionately bad affect on lower income families.

Of course private schools don’t do this. Not only do they have far more holidays, you can also take your kid out of school for holidays in term time or whatever else, whenever you like.
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