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  #61  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Maz might be correct that it’s unwise but it’s not based on nothing.

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Now I accept the world of business is almost certainly worse that education in terms of those traits. But I still think the drive for power and top jobs means it will still apply.

This goes hand in hand with what lots of teachers have told me. As said some of it, in terms of how staff, and to a lesser but still significant degree pupils, are treated I have found outright disturbing. And in all those cases they said the parents would be totally unaware. The bullying of staff in many schools is terrible.

If you want to dismiss what I’m saying then fair enough, but it comes from an honest view point.

As an aside I think the continual pressure of tests is awful. They are now doing trials for tests for kids in reception classes and not telling parents. I’ve just found out, after we really pushed them on the issue, that my daughters school is doing those trials. I think the relentless testing has contributed to a deterioration in mental health for children.

So much of teaching now is about stats, form filling and bureaucracy. And OFSTED is very much part of that.
So you've quoted your opinion as fact?
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  #62  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:16 PM
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So you've quoted your opinion as fact?
Where have I said itís a fact? Iím just giving my view.
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  #63  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Where have I said itís a fact? Iím just giving my view.
When you said "You get a lot of head teachers who are sociopaths"
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  #64  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
The £60 fines for unauthorised absence are also disgusting.
Send your kids to school and you pay nothing.
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  #65  
Old 22-09-2019, 07:19 PM
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Arguably, the problem is not Ofsted and its inspections, but what they result it. A poor inspection outcome has such dire consequences for schools and head teachers - and that's what drives the fear and behaviour described in this thread.
not that different to CQC inspections in health care - bottom line is that few people in any industry like 'independent' assessment of them ...
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  #66  
Old 22-09-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
The £60 fines for unauthorised absence are also disgusting. It is up to head whether to apply them but if they do you have no right of appeal. After 21 days it goes to £120 and after that youíre in court. Of course this has a disproportionately bad affect on lower income families.

Of course private schools donít do this. Not only do they have far more holidays, you can also take your kid out of school for holidays in term time or whatever else, whenever you like.
Cockney, itís rubbish to state that you can take out your child out whenever you like from independent schools. There might be some junior schools that turn a blind eye, but itís not universal.

The terms do tend to be a bit shorter, and therefore those schools in my experience can be even less sympathetic when parents want to overlap their holidays into term-time etc.

When you join these schools you usually sign a contract to abide by the schoolís policy and rules, and attendance will be one of those rules. Just because they pay school fees, this doesnít give parents/pupils a free pass to then behave as they wish, far from it.

A classic example I recall is a friendís daughter who was selected to be a mascot for an evening England match at Wembley. When the parents asked permission for her to leave her independent senior school at lunchtime, not only did they have to provide copies of the invitation letter as evidence but the Headmaster rather rudely told them that heíd watch the start of the match to check she was there! He didnít mean that as a joke, and wasnít a football fan.
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  #67  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SA Eagle View Post
When you said "You get a lot of head teachers who are sociopaths"
Which is my opinion.
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  #68  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Send your kids to school and you pay nothing.
Yeah because itís that easy is it. For instance some heads demand sick notes, but GPs wonít give them for three days or less.

There is a horrible atmosphere where kids feel pressure to go in even if they are sick with it drilled in at assemblies and in classes. You might think that kind of regime is ok. I donít.
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  #69  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Cockney, itís rubbish to state that you can take out your child out whenever you like from independent schools. There might be some junior schools that turn a blind eye, but itís not universal.

The terms do tend to be a bit shorter, and therefore those schools in my experience can be even less sympathetic when parents want to overlap their holidays into term-time etc.

When you join these schools you usually sign a contract to abide by the schoolís policy and rules, and attendance will be one of those rules. Just because they pay school fees, this doesnít give parents/pupils a free pass to then behave as they wish, far from it.

A classic example I recall is a friendís daughter who was selected to be a mascot for an evening England match at Wembley. When the parents asked permission for her to leave her independent senior school at lunchtime, not only did they have to provide copies of the invitation letter as evidence but the Headmaster rather rudely told them that heíd watch the start of the match to check she was there! He didnít mean that as a joke, and wasnít a football fan.
So you say itís rubbish then admit it happens lol. My experience of privileged people I know who can send their kids to private schools is they take their kids on holidays in term time and the schools donít seem to bat an eyelid.
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  #70  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:28 PM
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An utterly inept policy decision. If Angela Rayner becomes education minister, god help us
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Public schools in the firing line. Remove charitable status. Absolutely but the rest is removing peopleís choice. They already pay for their kids to go to state school thru tax. Then they pay more to send them to private school that they also pay tax on. Not for me but if others want to do it then fine.
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  #71  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:34 PM
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So you say itís rubbish then admit it happens lol. My experience of privileged people I know who can send their kids to private schools is they take their kids on holidays in term time and the schools donít seem to bat an eyelid.
I clearly said it is not universal, which is what you implied.

Private schools vary enormously, some are strict, but there are a few that have quite a different, more liberal ethos (and thatís possibly why the parents you know chose them?). Just as some are very academic and some are not.

You canít just lump them all together and say theyíre all the same, when the only thing that links them is that theyíre fee paying.

Maybe youíre thinking of occasions when their children were on holiday when the state schools were still in term time? That can give the false impression that the kids have been Ďtaken out of school timeí, when in fact they havenít as their particular school has actually broken up?

You are also not in a position to know whether their school didnít Ďbat an eyelidí or not. The parents will tell you what they wish, doesnít mean the school management didnít care about it. Parents do lie sometimes you know.
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  #72  
Old 22-09-2019, 10:41 PM
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I clearly said it is not universal, which is what you implied.

Private schools vary enormously, some are strict, but there are a few that have quite a different, more liberal ethos (and thatís possibly why the parents you know chose them?). Just as some are very academic and some are not.

You canít just lump them all together and say theyíre all the same, when the only thing that links them is that theyíre fee paying.

Maybe youíre thinking of occasions when their children were on holiday when the state schools were still in term time? That can give the false impression that the kids have been Ďtaken out of school timeí, when in fact they havenít as their particular school has actually broken up?

You are also not in a position to know whether their school didnít Ďbat an eyelidí or not. The parents will tell you what they wish, doesnít mean the school management didnít care about it. Parents do lie sometimes you know.
No I didnít, I said it happens. And I suspect itís fairly wide spread. And they certainly donít have the enforced oversight that state schools do.
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  #73  
Old 22-09-2019, 11:28 PM
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No I didnít, I said it happens. And I suspect itís fairly wide spread. And they certainly donít have the enforced oversight that state schools do.
Regardless of the type of school, the number of days during the year pupils attend school are the same. Public and private schools do Saturday mornings which is why they have longer holidays.

Iíve been in education long enough to remember when Ofsted first started. They were introduced in a crusade to find failing teachers (we all remember those!) - however, when Ofsted looked, the reality was most teachers were well motivated and capable. After failing to find poor teachers through fair means (ie observations), Ofsted became obsessed with results and league tables etc. Fine for schools with selection but for schools with challenging catchment areas it has been self defeating and unfair - schools are only as good as the teachers that work there and schools at the bottom of league tables find it hard to recruit and retain teachers.

I would like to see the detail of Labours policy before commenting about getting rid of Ofsted altogether but my gut feeling is that the money can be better spent. As it happens, the Tories have cut back on Ofsted inspections massively in the last 10 years - why? Value for Money
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  #74  
Old 22-09-2019, 11:51 PM
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Whatever the rights or wrongs of abolishing private schools (I'm against as rising house prices will keep poor kids out of the best state schools and their scholarship route out of poverty has been snatched away from them) the optics of a Labour front bench many of whom went to private school and/or sent their children there taking that option away from the public will give the Tory press and the government not to mention an increasingly competitive centralist party an open goal to tear them to shreads on this issue "rugby and jolly hockey sticks for me but not for thee!"
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  #75  
Old 23-09-2019, 12:21 AM
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To just suggest scrapping the system before you have first have a viable alternative seems counter productive. It's like the Labour proposal to scrap Private schools and confiscate their assets. Before doing that you have to first find a new school for the offsprings of the Labour front benches who send their Children to Private school. Along of course with Labour Baroness Shami Chakrabati who's offspring apparently attends a private college. All seems a bit odd really.
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  #76  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:17 AM
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Labour Baroness Shami Chakrabati who's offspring apparently attends a private college. All seems a bit odd really.

Labour are riddled with hypocrisy:


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Old 23-09-2019, 01:49 AM
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This is how it's working out for Diane Abbott's kid btw:


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Money and influence - who needs it?
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  #78  
Old 23-09-2019, 07:05 AM
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Regardless of the type of school, the number of days during the year pupils attend school are the same. Public and private schools do Saturday mornings which is why they have longer holidays.

Iíve been in education long enough to remember when Ofsted first started. They were introduced in a crusade to find failing teachers (we all remember those!) - however, when Ofsted looked, the reality was most teachers were well motivated and capable. After failing to find poor teachers through fair means (ie observations), Ofsted became obsessed with results and league tables etc. Fine for schools with selection but for schools with challenging catchment areas it has been self defeating and unfair - schools are only as good as the teachers that work there and schools at the bottom of league tables find it hard to recruit and retain teachers.

I would like to see the detail of Labours policy before commenting about getting rid of Ofsted altogether but my gut feeling is that the money can be better spent. As it happens, the Tories have cut back on Ofsted inspections massively in the last 10 years - why? Value for Money
Most private schools donít do Saturday mornings and have far shorter term times. What youíve said about the same amount of days is wrong.

On OFSTED I largely agree with you.
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Old 23-09-2019, 07:08 AM
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On Labour policy, this comes from the membership and/or trade unions so what individual cabinet members have done is irrelevant.
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Old 23-09-2019, 07:33 AM
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No I didnít, I said it happens. And I suspect itís fairly wide spread. And they certainly donít have the enforced oversight that state schools do.
Well, you did say it.

Re private schools you wrote Ďyou can also take your kids out of school for holidays in term time or whatever else, whenever you likeí. You didnít couch that in any caveats and implied that was the universal situation.

Looking back at your posts, making sweeping statements based on a small sample or experience seems to be a common theme.
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