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  #41  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
FSA are Jihadists arenít they?
No. They are now a proxy of Turkey, but originally this is what they stood on:

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They fought both Assad and ISIS before they degenerate as they were defeated by Assad, Russia and Iran.
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  #42  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Surprised CR isnít more in favour of the YPG given their politics.
Iím in favour of them against Turkey but I think their role in the Syrian civil war was shameful.

I also think they put a libertarian gloss on their underlying Stalinist politics.

But I hope that manage to fight off Turkey but canít see it.
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  #43  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Iím in favour of them against Turkey but I think their role in the Syrian civil war was shameful.

I also think they put a libertarian gloss on their underlying Stalinist politics.

But I hope that manage to fight off Turkey but canít see it.
Can you elaborate a little on the first 2 points. I thought the FSA were anti Kurd.
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Can you elaborate a little on the first 2 points. I thought the FSA were anti Kurd.
You can read from their manifesto they I put a link to that they werenít anti Kurd. They wanted an alliance with the YPG against Assad, but the YPG chose to align with Assad.

The YPG stemmed from Stalinist politics. Itís hard to get accurate information out but I donít think I believe they have suddenly become autonomists and anarchists.
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  #45  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Asagaya_Eagle View Post
Yes - they are Syrian Kurds.
Remind us how well that relationship has gone. between kurds and the governments of any of Turkey Syria, Iran and Iraq has gone?
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  #46  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
The YPG did and have aligned themselves with Assad. Sadly they did this rather than align themselves with the Free Syrian Army.

The FSA is a now a rump of its former self and a proxy of Turkey.

At its height it controlled the majority of Syria and was the only force promising democratic elections. If the YPG had backed the FSA at this point it could have had a real impact. Instead, shamefully in my view, they backed Assad, including in the battle for Aleppo.

Obviously I back them against Turkey but they are reaping what they sowed to some extent. Indeed it was comical to see their fanboys denouncing the FSA for taking paltry aid from the west while being silent on the huge amount of aid the YPG got from the US, including allowing US military bases all over their territory.
its well easy to make breathless comments like shameful when viewing a vicious civil war from the comfort of your own home. its pretty poor form really.
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
They are fighting the troops of a NATO member.

Sadly no one has even mentioned sanctions, the world is offering weasly words and zero actual action.

As ever, in geopolitics, the Kurds don't matter. Single use fighters to be developed when useful and then binned.

The Turks, just like the Persians and Iraqis have been repressing the Kurds for centuries, no one has ever given a shit.
Sad but true
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
its well easy to make breathless comments like shameful when viewing a vicious civil war from the comfort of your own home. its pretty poor form really.
Ok point taken. Should have said, a wrong decision in my view.
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You can read from their manifesto they I put a link to that they werenít anti Kurd. They wanted an alliance with the YPG against Assad, but the YPG chose to align with Assad.

The YPG stemmed from Stalinist politics. Itís hard to get accurate information out but I donít think I believe they have suddenly become autonomists and anarchists.
I am sure the YPG are shitting themselves at the thought that you don't believe them.
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  #50  
Old 11-10-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
I am sure the YPG are shitting themselves at the thought that you don't believe them.
No shit. This is a message board.
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  #51  
Old 11-10-2019, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
He’s talking bollocks.
He served with them and held the Druze Israeli troops in the highest regard.
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  #52  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
He served with them and held the Druze Israeli troops in the highest regard.
Thatís is maybe but the idea that the IDF would not be able to stop a rogue section of the Israeli army invading Syria is bollocks.
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  #53  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
No shit. This is a message board.
No shit the YPG are the protection units which are part of the SDF. The NES calls the SDF official defence force. The reality is Kurdish politics is ever shifting with a multitude of influences including the PKK and its affiliates. although the whole region is not purely Kurdish hence arab and assyrian involvement too. Rojava has been fairly stable for the past 4-5 years sadly this Turkish adventurism will not help.
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  #54  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
No shit the YPG are the protection units which are part of the SDF. The NES calls the SDF official defence force. The reality is Kurdish politics is ever shifting with a multitude of influences including the PKK and its affiliates. although the whole region is not purely Kurdish hence arab and assyrian involvement too. Rojava has been fairly stable for the past 4-5 years sadly this Turkish adventurism will not help.
Not sure what this post adds to anything.
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  #55  
Old 12-10-2019, 07:39 PM
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  #56  
Old 12-10-2019, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I also think they put a libertarian gloss on their underlying Stalinist politics.

But Murray and Milne, Corbyn's handpicked closest advisers are OK?
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  #57  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:09 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
But Murray and Milne, Corbyn's handpicked closest advisers are OK?
No they are Stalinist scum bags as I’ve said many times.

That aside I’ve read many left articles that are positive of the Rojava project and they believe the Stalinist past has changed. But I’ve read other articles which shed doubt on that and it seems a funny old anarchism to me that has portraits of ÷calan all over the shop and support private property in the constitution.

I would say again though that I absolutely oppose the invasion by Turkey which is totally reactionary.
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  #58  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:25 PM
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Sam Hamad is excellent on Syria and the article above gives lots of good links to other articles.

Quote:
But this brings me back to schadenfreude or, as someone who has criticised the conduct of the PYD regarding the Syrian rebellion, lack of it. It's perfectly true that the PYD formed an unlikely pragmatic alliance with Assad early on in the Syrian war.

And it's perfectly true that this alliance created an ethnic rift where before there had been organic unity among Kurd and Arab in the north against the Assad dynasty - a dynasty that had long oppressed and ruthlessly repressed Kurds with a combination of racist policies and ruthless violence when Kurds rebelled.

However, the alliance was one of mutual pragmatism more than ideological harmony.

Assad withdrew his forces from Kurdish areas, freeing them to fight the rebellion, while the PYD could concentrate on building its statelet. As noted by the International Crisis Group at the time, the PYD denied access to Syrian rebel groups. This is why during the eight years of war in Syria, not one regime barrel bomb was ever dropped on Rojava.

From this point onwards, the relationship between the PYD and Syrian rebels unravelled drastically, and for the Syrian rebels, destructively so.

Playing on the pre-existing Islamophobia and anti-Arab racism in the West, the PYD successfully sold itself as a 'civilised' and 'westernised' alternative to the overtly Islamic and 'foreign' Syrian rebels.

Too often in western narratives, 'the Kurds' were fetishised as sufficiently 'western' enough to care about, while Syrians facing genuine annihilation were contrasted as backward Arabo-Islamic savages, prone to Al-Qaeda and Islamic State (IS).
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Last edited by cockneyrebel; 12-10-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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  #59  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:56 PM
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  #60  
Old 13-10-2019, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
No they are Stalinist scum bags as Iíve said many times.
Fair enough, we should have this conversation on the Corbyn thread
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