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  #1  
Old 16-10-2019, 12:40 PM
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Thought I’d start a new thread on the politics forum as the other one is on GCC.

And so the opportunist Sturgeon is sabre rattling once more and Indyref2 is starting to look a real possibility as early as next year.

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Yes, this once in a generation question is going to be asked again....five years after it was last asked. Living up here and seeing the total mess the SNP are making of public services, especially health and education, it sends shivers up the spine to think they may get their way. But the main reason another referendum worries me is, as we saw we the previous one and of course Brexit, it is a sure fire way to split a country in half and unleash deep seated hatred among the population. Certainly the tension and anger it created the last time was not nice.

I do have time for the SNP politicians; in general their social moral compass points generally in the right direction and certainly more than the Tories, although that’s not saying much; and I like seeing them in the House of Commons in numbers, making our Parliament a more democratic one and giving it to the Tories, seeing as Labour have lost all ability to do so.

But this rabid obsession to go independent is increasingly becoming a real threat, and of course Cameron and the other idiotic Tories have handed them an open goal and another reason to scream ‘yes’ again.
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Old 16-10-2019, 12:46 PM
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And so the opportunist Sturgeon is sabre rattling once more and Indyref2 is starting to look a real possibility as early as next year.
Genuine question, how? Perhaps if a Labour administration needs SNP (and only SNP) votes to get into power they might give another referendum as the pay off. But not certain how likely that scenario is.

Any other make up of Government I find it hard to see agreeing.
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Old 16-10-2019, 01:09 PM
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Genuine question, how? Perhaps if a Labour administration needs SNP (and only SNP) votes to get into power they might give another referendum as the pay off. But not certain how likely that scenario is.

Any other make up of Government I find it hard to see agreeing.
I hope you’re right, but just with how ridiculously unstable Westminster politics is at the moment, I don’t feel so confident. As you mentioned, I think Labour accepting another referendum in return for a place back at the top seat as a coalition is a real possibility.
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Old 16-10-2019, 01:37 PM
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Genuine question, how? Perhaps if a Labour administration needs SNP (and only SNP) votes to get into power they might give another referendum as the pay off. But not certain how likely that scenario is.

Any other make up of Government I find it hard to see agreeing.
Personally, if I was Labour, I'd give them the nod towards a second referendum - they're not going to win it unless the UK actually leaves the EU anyhow. The SNP know it, and some point in the future is probably better for them, than now.

If you're the SNP, you need the UK to leave and for leave to have a significant impact on Scotland and the UK in general, at which point they might win an independence referendum that involves joining the EU
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Old 16-10-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Thought I’d start a new thread on the politics forum as the other one is on GCC.

And so the opportunist Sturgeon is sabre rattling once more and Indyref2 is starting to look a real possibility as early as next year.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

Yes, this once in a generation question is going to be asked again....five years after it was last asked. Living up here and seeing the total mess the SNP are making of public services, especially health and education, it sends shivers up the spine to think they may get their way. But the main reason another referendum worries me is, as we saw we the previous one and of course Brexit, it is a sure fire way to split a country in half and unleash deep seated hatred among the population. Certainly the tension and anger it created the last time was not nice.

I do have time for the SNP politicians; in general their social moral compass points generally in the right direction and certainly more than the Tories, although that’s not saying much; and I like seeing them in the House of Commons in numbers, making our Parliament a more democratic one and giving it to the Tories, seeing as Labour have lost all ability to do so.

But this rabid obsession to go independent is increasingly becoming a real threat, and of course Cameron and the other idiotic Tories have handed them an open goal and another reason to scream ‘yes’ again.
Not so sure we're doing a much better job South of the Border either.
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Old 16-10-2019, 01:40 PM
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I assume any Brexit supporters are also in favour of Scotxit (or Scexit)?
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Old 16-10-2019, 01:43 PM
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The SNP would still need to tell us what currency they would use etc.
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Old 16-10-2019, 02:20 PM
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I hope you’re right, but just with how ridiculously unstable Westminster politics is at the moment, I don’t feel so confident. As you mentioned, I think Labour accepting another referendum in return for a place back at the top seat as a coalition is a real possibility.
If Labour need Lib Dem seats (and are willing to replace Corbyn who I don't think the LDs can accept) in addition to SNP, then I can't see it happening. I doubt it would be a red line for LDs to join a coalition, but they'll demand the right to vote against.

SNP can hardly say to Labour you need to vote for it and get the LDs to vote for it too, and they have no direct leverage over LDs.

So this is only a scenario in which Labour + SNP = a majority.

Possible, god knows it's hard to predict anything these days, but I don't think too likely. Of course LDs could get wiped out like last time so who knows? FPTP is a bugger.
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  #9  
Old 16-10-2019, 02:22 PM
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The SNP would still need to tell us what currency they would use etc.
Their problem is that Scottish Independence is just as daft as Brexit. Same lies. They'll be back to claiming "they need us more than we need them" "easiest trade deal in the world" "we wont pay our debts" and all the other classics the Brexiters took directly from them.

Nationalism is poison.
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Old 16-10-2019, 02:26 PM
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Maybe Labour could give Scotland a referendum on whether they want a referendum
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Old 16-10-2019, 02:34 PM
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Their problem is that Scottish Independence is just as daft as Brexit. Same lies. They'll be back to claiming "they need us more than we need them" "easiest trade deal in the world" "we wont pay our debts" and all the other classics the Brexiters took directly from them.

Nationalism is poison.
It would be even worse though because with Scottish separatism every national UK company would have to split the pension scheme (without the future ability to cross-subsidise) and you'd have to divide and apportion the assets and liabilities of the military, Bank Of England, the gold reserves, the national debt, the embassies, the banking regulator, the phone, postal, railway and utility networks.
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Old 16-10-2019, 02:37 PM
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It would be even worse though because with Scottish separatism every national UK company would have to split the pension scheme (without the future ability to cross-subsidise) and you'd have to divide and apportion the assets and liabilities of the military, Bank Of England, the gold reserves, the national debt, the embassies, the banking regulator, the phone, postal, railway and utility networks.
According to Leavers the EU control all those things?
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:20 PM
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Scottish Independence should not be something that is pursued right now.

Should be left for a good few years to let the dust settle on Brexit.

However the antics in Westminster these last couple of years is one of the best adverts for indyref2 there can be.
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:27 PM
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Another irony is that if we were to eventually remain in the EU and they then gained independance Scotland would automatically come out of the EU and they would have to re-apply and England could veto their membership.
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:28 PM
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More Scottish voters voted leave in the referendum ....... than Voted ........ for the SNP in the last election.
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:39 PM
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More Scottish voters voted leave in the referendum ....... than Voted ........ for the SNP in the last election.
If you think Brexit is a good idea then the same applies to Scotxit (I'm going to keep suing using it)
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:44 PM
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Another irony is that if we were to eventually remain in the EU and they then gained independance Scotland would automatically come out of the EU and they would have to re-apply and England could veto their membership.
The irony is that the NO vote was sold on the line 'the only way of guaranteeing staying in the EU was remaining in the UK'

Regardless of whether the UK remains in the EU or not (hopefully it does) it will not be lost on a significant number up here as to what a what a crock of shit that proved to be, considering how bad the last 3 plus years of British politics has been.

An indyref2 held in the next year or so will be close and the NO campaign will not be trusted this time around. However this time around NO will rightly major on how difficult Brexit has been so will state expect the same, perhaps worse, for Scexit.
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Old 16-10-2019, 04:48 PM
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If you think Brexit is a good idea then the same applies to Scotxit (I'm going to keep suing using it)
If they want out then fine .. the SNP are still *****!
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Old 21-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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A court date has been set in the case against former first minister Alex Salmond, who faces charges including attempted rape and sexual assault.
A preliminary hearing will go ahead at the High Court in Edinburgh on 21 November, before a full trial, which is expected to take place early next year.
Mr Salmond was charged with a total of 14 offences on 24 January this year.
They include two charges of attempted rape, nine of sexual assault and two of indecent assault.


He was paid 500k by The Scottish government in legal expenses in August over its flawed inquiry into sexual harassment claims.
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Old 21-10-2019, 04:38 PM
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Because a lot of things the ‘No’ campaign was built on have proven to have been false Scotland deserves another referendum.

I will however still vote no.
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