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  #3381  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
I wouldn't disagree with you but why do you say that? Given the Guardian article posted earlier, many of the failings stem from poor management, like the IT issues.
I've seen first hand how poor the CQC are in relation to care home inspections. I won't go into detail here for various reasons.

Seems like the doctor in the article I read put chronic understaffing and underresourcing as the main problem? Having spent some time in a hospital recently with an ill relative, my experience bore this out. No where near enough staff.
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  #3382  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
It sort of does. Boris performed badly under pressure and the journalist immediately tried to deflect criticism by blaming the dad for supporting Labour.

Show my the bit of her commentary which states the more obvious points that:
  • Johnson barefaced lied even though there were press all over the shop; and
  • He didn't show one tiny iota of human sympathy for a worried father

No, she just looked for ways to explain it away rather than blame Johnson for two obvious and immediate failings.
Rule 101 - Whenever someones perspective or political stance is referenced over what they're actually saying, you know that fundamentally its a diversion tactic to avoid engaging with what is being said.

That applies to everyone. Once you start dismissing people on the basis of their political pursuassions, you're steering away from democratic discourse into ideological monologues. Twisting reality to fit naratives is a dangerous path that breaks away the sociological lifeblood of democracy.

This is a popular tactic of the far right and far left, the concept of reconstructing the story to fit their agenda, thats increasingly fed into the mainstream of politics (Spin). Its whats led us into such political dead ends where the 'party line' trumps all
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  #3383  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Yup, LK played the man not the ball. Poor.
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  #3384  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Just checked the Sky news footage which is identical so supports only 1 camera there, they helpfully subtitle the poor audio and IMO Boris is actually surprised at the press allegation. He says to his knowledge and looks at the Chief Exec not his own team who are not obvious.

Now my belief is that Boris is the front man with others controlling him from behind. I know others will disagree but to me he looks like someone looking at others for answers to the press comment. The fact he looks at Hospital staff to me suggests they are in control of what is happening, not the No.10 comms team.

We never actually get to hear Boris give an answer as the father keeps ranting rather than having any discussion.
He knew there was press there

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"Contrary to Johnson’s comment, his visit to Whipps Cross Hospital in east London was in fact a media opportunity arranged by Downing Street, with a BBC camera crew and a video journalist and a photographer from the Press Association to provide “pooled” coverage to be shared with the rest of the media."

In addition to arranging the pooled coverage, Downing Street sent around an operational note for the visit, with the subject line: “WEDNESDAY: Operational note: PM to visit a hospital in London”.
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  #3385  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:55 AM
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Kuenssberg wasn't even the first prominent political tweeter to tweet that he is a Labour activist.
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  #3386  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Kuenssberg wasn't even the first prominent political tweeter to tweet that he is a Labour activist.
Oh well that makes it ok then obviously
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  #3387  
Old 19-09-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Kuenssberg wasn't even the first prominent political tweeter to tweet that he is a Labour activist.
You're right. Guido Fawkes did it first.
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  #3388  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Rule 101 - Whenever someones perspective or political stance is referenced over what they're actually saying, you know that fundamentally its a diversion tactic to avoid engaging with what is being said.

That applies to everyone. Once you start dismissing people on the basis of their political pursuassions, you're steering away from democratic discourse into ideological monologues. Twisting reality to fit naratives is a dangerous path that breaks away the sociological lifeblood of democracy.

This is a popular tactic of the far right and far left, the concept of reconstructing the story to fit their agenda, thats increasingly fed into the mainstream of politics (Spin). Its whats led us into such political dead ends where the 'party line' trumps all
Yep, not just the far right or left either. Pretty common tactic - don't address criticism, but smear, dismiss or otherwise attack the source of the criticism (or maybe just call them unpatriotic , negative or enemies of the people).
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  #3389  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Kuenssberg wasn't even the first prominent political tweeter to tweet that he is a Labour activist.
Picked up on it pretty quick though, eh? Couldn't believe her luck - even though she hadn't got around to actually reporting the main points of the faux pas she wanted to deflect attention from.

As I said, I don't even think she knows she's doing it.
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  #3390  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:04 AM
Johnybegood Johnybegood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Rule 101 - Whenever someones perspective or political stance is referenced over what they're actually saying, you know that fundamentally its a diversion tactic to avoid engaging with what is being said.

That applies to everyone. Once you start dismissing people on the basis of their political pursuassions, you're steering away from democratic discourse into ideological monologues. Twisting reality to fit naratives is a dangerous path that breaks away the sociological lifeblood of democracy.

This is a popular tactic of the far right and far left, the concept of reconstructing the story to fit their agenda, thats increasingly fed into the mainstream of politics (Spin). Its whats led us into such political dead ends where the 'party line' trumps all
Very true, straw man arguments based on tribal loyalties, which trump honesty, the common good or informed debate, forget about facts, expert insight or consequences
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  #3391  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Really? I willing to bet that if someone harangued Corbyn on a walkabout and it emerged that that person was a Tory activist and Kuenssberg didn't point that out, she'd have been criticised for that.
depends on the circumstance, was the guy there as a parent of a sick baby or as a labour activist.

If he was there to protest and ruin Johnson's PR stunt of course his political career allegiance should be called out. If he was there because his newly born was unwell and he was alarmed at the lack of staff on the ward his political allegiance is irrelevant distracts and diverts from the story and undermines its value
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  #3392  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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In the current scheme of things I find this story a little bit dull and tedious to follow, what with the associated cumbersome twitter language of "quote tweeting" and "pile on" and the like.
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  #3393  
Old 19-09-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
He knew there was press there

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"Contrary to Johnson’s comment, his visit to Whipps Cross Hospital in east London was in fact a media opportunity arranged by Downing Street, with a BBC camera crew and a video journalist and a photographer from the Press Association to provide “pooled” coverage to be shared with the rest of the media."

In addition to arranging the pooled coverage, Downing Street sent around an operational note for the visit, with the subject line: “WEDNESDAY: Operational note: PM to visit a hospital in London”.

Thanks.
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  #3394  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jmemour View Post
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Even the bloke himself doesn't think Kuenssberg has done anything wrong.
It's fascinating how this has simply been ignored.
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  #3395  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
She calls a lot wrong, and she gives assertions and opinions when she should just report the ******* news. She's a tory alright.
Give me your top three examples. Because so far as I've seen, she was attacked almost from the start by the Corbynites for reporting factually on things they didn't like. Almost immediately she was labelled as a Tory, without evidence. Then she's been attacked through this unsubstantiated prism ever since.

All journalists will make mistakes, but the abuse she gets is horrific. I can't see anything other then a good reporter
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  #3396  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
Dismissing this as being a result of misogyny is very weird and really devalues when misogyny is the reason for criticism of Kuenssberg (or others).

There is a clear reason for the criticism. You might not understand it but that doesn't automatically translate into misogyny.

I can't quite believe that you don't think sending a potential 1million people in his direction having noted that he's a Labour activist is not going to have any impact or a minimal impact.

The point isn't even about that, it's about the way it's framed as him being a Labour activist as if somehow that means he isn't allowed to say anything. Idiots are wrongly saying he had a microphone now and that it was a political stunt.

It's a bit of a dead cat, the PM lied impulsively yet again, but this has taken all the attention when it's so much less relevant.

Almost certainly some people who hate Kuenssberg because she's a woman are using it to their advantage but the vast majority of the criticism has been sensible and logical.

Really well reasoned and written post Woosie. There is no doubt that like all leading female politicians and journalists these LK receives misogynistic abuse that is vile and never ever acceptable.

Those haters will hate whatever the story.

However the legitimate criticism she has received over this issue has absolutely nothing to do with her sex and to somehow find misogyny where there is none totally undermines the case for calling out misogyny when it does rear its ugly hate.
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  #3397  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
The highly unlikely but only possible explanation for that might be that he was not aware. It looked like it was 1 camera and not a press pack so it is possible, that it was the Hospital rather than No.10 who were running the show. He may have unknowingly been there for a press opportunity, but the hospitals one. (I am not say he was or it was likely, just trying to see if there was another explanation)

The hospital might have cause for needing to try and show themselves in a good light given they are currently classified as 'requires improvement' and the CQC say they are currently reinspecting. If it was a No.10 press event you would have expected their communications team to be all around but it was the Hospital running the show.
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  #3398  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post

However the legitimate criticism she has received over this issue
Explain the legitimate criticism. What is it she shouldn't have done? Quote tweet someone already publicly speaking about an event (literally how Twitter works)? Describe him in the terms he describes himself, and was already talking about himself? Not offend him, as he thinks her actions are fine?

Maybe as a rule, "Polical journalists shouldn't..." so we can test if it's a fair criticism and not just because people have decided she's a Tory so attack her regardless.
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  #3399  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
It's fascinating how this has simply been ignored.


Doesn’t get reported. Amazing. Remain also found to have broken electoral law. Didn’t get reported. Also amazing.

Amazing world we live in.
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  #3400  
Old 19-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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Doesn’t get reported. Amazing. Remain also found to have broken electoral law. Didn’t get reported. Also amazing.

Amazing world we live in.
I am sure it was reported as I read a report on it the other day.

It was a minor slap on the wrist for not declaring affiliations.
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