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  #341  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
My argument is very simple that before Jo Cox no one had assumed that anyone would try to kill an MP, at this point no climate change protester has killed anyone but this does not mean it will not ever happen.

My point and my ďcoloursĒ are that if an uninvited person is trying to make their way towards someone like Philip Hammond they are better to be stopped than find out that they are going to harm them afterwards. If someone had done this for Jo Cox she would still be alive this was the first time and hopefully the last that any MP is murdered.
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Just to be clear I have no knowledge of an MP being murdered by a constituent prior to Jo Cox as a result I assume the risk was small, now this has happened regardless of the party or views of the MP or the ďriskĒ they should be stopped just as I am sure not all people with right wing views are murderers I also donít believe all climate changers are harmless
It really isnít the first time an MP has been murdered and someone did try to step in and save jo Cox. They were stabbed repeatedly and made no difference sadly.
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  #342  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
You really don't get protest do you?

Of course protesters are aware that they may face prosecution. As I said, if you read up on the history of the Suffragettes, you will already know that arrest, charges and prosecution are part of what they often seek. It is never something they avoid and more often than not, expect. Frankly, I am done with this, if you haven't got it by now.
You donít get law do you ? You have suggested that Mark Field will not be prosecuted because she is not pressing charges.

You canít accept that if he is not guilty of anything he will not be prosecuted and found guilty you know underneath he is not guilty of anything but canít admit.

Have a nice day
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  #343  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Trespass on property is not s criminal offence therefore the CPS canít prosecute her for it even if they wanted to and as far as I am aware this was her only breach of law.
Well then what's the issue? Are you saying she can't be prosecuted but can be assaulted? Little doubt that grabbing somebody and frogmarching them out is assault.
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  #344  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:33 AM
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Stop watching the video and take a cold shower.
Youíve literally repeated back what I earlier said to you. 1/10.
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  #345  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:37 AM
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The other issue is, what gave Field the right to grab her and haul her out?

He isn't security. If he'd joined in a fight where a friend was threatened fair enough, but he didn't. He wouldn't have grabbed her and removed her unless he was pretty damned sure he was miles stronger than her. This wasn't reasonable force because he had no reasonable reason to intervene at all.
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  #346  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:43 AM
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He's done the right thing by saying he did wrong immediately and apologising - I think he'll be told off and say sorry again, and that will be it. He is probably ashamed of his actions.

Would have been a wild error of judgement to attempt any of the justifications seen on this thread.
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  #347  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Well then what's the issue? Are you saying she can't be prosecuted but can be assaulted? Little doubt that grabbing somebody and frogmarching them out is assault.
It is not assault you are permitted to remove trespassers by means of reasonable force, now if Field had picked up a fire extinguisher and smashed her round the head and carried her out that would have been excessive, if she had a pick axe handle then this would have been considered reasonable force.

If he had punched her in this instance I think it would have been unreasonable force if she had been posturing in a “boxers” stance then it would have most likely been deemed reasonable. Blocking her path and froggmarching her out I do not believe is excessive and very much reasonable and I guess that the police and CPS will have the same view.

I would guess (but I don’t know) that as he was invited to this event and has a right to be there that he is entitled to use reasonable force to remove a trespasser, I doubt that it is only the landlord or his direct agents that have this afforded to them.
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Last edited by redandblue; 22-06-2019 at 07:47 AM.
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  #348  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
It is not assault you are permitted to remove trespassers by means of reasonable force, now if Field had picked up a fire extinguisher and smashed her round the head and carried her out that would have been excessive if he had struck her that may have been excessive but to block her path and fort march her out I do not believe us and I guess that the police and CPS will have the same view.

I would guess (but I donít know) that as he was invited to this event and has a right to be there that he is entitled to use reasonable force to remove a trespasser, I doubt that it is only the landlord or his direct agents that have this afforded to them.
Whether he is prosecuted or not his own party have suspended him and as someone said earlier heís obviously a complete ****.
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  #349  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
It is not assault you are permitted to remove trespassers by means of reasonable force, now if Field had picked up a fire extinguisher and smashed her round the head and carried her out that would have been excessive if he had struck her that may have been excessive but to block her path and fort march her out I do not believe us and I guess that the police and CPS will have the same view.

I would guess (but I donít know) that as he was invited to this event and has a right to be there that he is entitled to use reasonable force to remove a trespasser, I doubt that it is only the landlord or his direct agents that have this afforded to them.
He was, I assume, an invited guest. so wouldn't have known if the protester had been invited or not. He wasn't being trespassed against. He didn't own the property as far as I know, or organise the event, or have a security role.
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  #350  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:50 AM
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The above is another example of an over the top reaction to political protest.

The difference with Field is he was obviously enjoying it.
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  #351  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
The other issue is, what gave Field the right to grab her and haul her out?

He isn't security. If he'd joined in a fight where a friend was threatened fair enough, but he didn't. He wouldn't have grabbed her and removed her unless he was pretty damned sure he was miles stronger than her. This wasn't reasonable force because he had no reasonable reason to intervene at all.
ďreasonable forceĒ is the description of the amount of force used his reason was that she was a trespasser and he says he thought she was a possible risk.

The fact that he is ďmiles strongerĒ than her is irrelevant and the fact that you think he would not have done the same with a stronger person is your opinion not fact.
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  #352  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
He was, I assume, an invited guest. so wouldn't have known if the protester had been invited or not. He wasn't being trespassed against. He didn't own the property as far as I know, or organise the event, or have a security role.
Are you seriously suggesting that he did not think that the protester was not invited ?

I agree with your last sentence but I donít know the position under law. If I had a bbq and someone gatecrashed and one of my mates removed them I would assume that as they were acting in my interest I would assume that this would be legal.

However it will be clear if he was acting illegally as with this media coverage there is no way he would not be arrested if he committed and offence
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  #353  
Old 22-06-2019, 07:59 AM
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He should be sacked and charged with assault.

It was excessive use of force on a clearly unarmed female protester. He only needed to stand in her way and block her.

As an aside, no surprise to see the vast majority of the BBS siding with the establishment yet again....

As a website born on the back of the Lloyds protests, it is sad to see its decline into a safe, cosy, liberal establishment Gentleman's Club.
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  #354  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
This is a publicly owned building and she was protesting climate change. What's all this twattery about "trespassing"?.
Confusing I know, but most public buildings are private property.

You can prove this yourself at a museum today.
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  #355  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that he did not think that the protester was not invited ?

I agree with your last sentence but I donít know the position under law. If I had a bbq and someone gatecrashed and one of my mates removed them I would assume that as they were acting in my interest I would assume that this would be legal.

However it will be clear if he was acting illegally as with this media coverage there is no way he would not be arrested if he committed and offence
It's not comparable to you and your mates at a barbecue on private property. This was publicly owned property where the chancellor was making a speech about how we spend public money.

There is an argument that says she has as much right to be there as him. He represents a small number of wealthy exploiters, she represents everybody on the planet.
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  #356  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that he did not think that the protester was not invited ?

I agree with your last sentence but I donít know the position under law. If I had a bbq and someone gatecrashed and one of my mates removed them I would assume that as they were acting in my interest I would assume that this would be legal.

However it will be clear if he was acting illegally as with this media coverage there is no way he would not be arrested if he committed and offence
But itís not just about the law whatever your view. He was suspended by his own party. Just because he wasnít charged doesnít mean his behaviour wasnít shit.
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  #357  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
He should be sacked and charged with assault.

It was excessive use of force on a clearly unarmed female protester. He only needed to stand in her way and block her.

As an aside, no surprise to see the vast majority of the BBS siding with the establishment yet again....

As a website born on the back of the Lloyds protests, it is sad to see its decline into a safe, cosy, liberal establishment Gentleman's Club.
It’s mainly tories backing him on here.
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  #358  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
He should be sacked and charged with assault.

It was excessive use of force on a clearly unarmed female protester. He only needed to stand in her way and block her.

As an aside, no surprise to see the vast majority of the BBS siding with the establishment yet again....

As a website born on the back of the Lloyds protests, it is sad to see its decline into a safe, cosy, liberal establishment Gentleman's Club.
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  #359  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Itís mainly tories backing him on here.
It really isnít. See the first few pages.
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  #360  
Old 22-06-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle View Post
So if a fascist woman broke in to protest at a Momentum meeting and made a move towards say, Jeremy Corbyn how do you think Momentum mps should react.
Hold an emergency meeting, reach a consensus and put it before the Labour executive for consideration?
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