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  #101  
Old 25-09-2019, 02:50 PM
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How many of the middle class office working eco warrior heroes have personally got up into a loft and insulated it?
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  #102  
Old 25-09-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Don't be silly, skint has picked up one random statistic and therefore thinks he knows more than the vast majority of the world's scientific community.
Demonstrates my point perfectly.

There you've simply attacked the questioner to avoid the question. You can easily check the number but it makes me wonder.
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  #103  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Demonstrates my point perfectly.

There you've simply attacked the questioner to avoid the question. You can easily check the number but it makes me wonder.
What was your point? You think you know better than the combined intellect of the world's science community?
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  #104  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
How many of the middle class office working eco warrior heroes have personally got up into a loft and insulated it?
I did. And that spectacularly misses the point.

Small gestures like this are important, yes, but 71% of CO2 emissions come from just 100 big companies (China Coal alone is responsible for 14%). Changing the way we provide energy and restructuring the global economy away from carbon based fuel is the only way to solve the problem; and that's why its so hard and encounters so much resistance.

When business relies on the energy provided by fossil fuels and those 100 companies lobbying power (not to mention their commission of "scientific" denials of human caused climate change) mean that the effort has to be structural and political; we can't just solve the problem by riding to the shops.
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  #105  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
How many of the middle class office working eco warrior heroes have personally got up into a loft and insulated it?


(although I've arrived at the thread late, and have no idea if I am a middle class office working eco warrior)
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  #106  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:40 PM
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It's about personal responsibility too, not just nasty corporatioms. You cannot just get out of it that easy.
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  #107  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
How many of the middle class office working eco warrior heroes have personally got up into a loft and insulated it?
How many office workers are actually middle classed. Maybe 50 years ago.

Does it matter if they did, or they paid someone too. Its not a class issue, and one of the problems of history has been focusing on the cost impacts of Environmental actions, because its been used as a means to avoid doing anything. Then they just kicked the can down the road.

The problem here, if your so inclined, one of class or class divisions, the reality is that climate change is a) real b) going to f**k with people regardless of their class status.

Doing nothing is rapidly becoming a non option, and having done nothing is creating a situation where we're looking at greater and more costly actions.
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  #108  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
It's about personal responsibility too, not just nasty corporatioms. You cannot just get out of it that easy.
Well you can, if you don't have kids and are above a certain age...
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  #109  
Old 25-09-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
How many office workers are actually middle classed. Maybe 50 years ago.

Does it matter if they did, or they paid someone too. Its not a class issue, and one of the problems of history has been focusing on the cost impacts of Environmental actions, because its been used as a means to avoid doing anything. Then they just kicked the can down the road.

The problem here, if your so inclined, one of class or class divisions, the reality is that climate change is a) real b) going to f**k with people regardless of their class status.

Doing nothing is rapidly becoming a non option, and having done nothing is creating a situation where we're looking at greater and more costly actions.
Have I said do nothing? I do believe it's about personal responsibility as well as corps. The bits I do like are two fold. The chance to redistribute wealth to the regions and for the UK to get ahead of the creative destruction field i.e invest in the industries of the future. I do believe that there is personal accountability though.
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  #110  
Old 25-09-2019, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
What is new is the speed of climate change and the increased urgency for action.

What is new about Greta is that in 13 months she went from a single girl making a solo protest to worldwide protests. I'm sure that the reason so many middle aged people dislike her is because she makes them realise how little they've done with their lives!
And how little they’re doing to limit their carbon footprint.
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  #111  
Old 25-09-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
How many office workers are actually middle classed. Maybe 50 years ago.

Does it matter if they did, or they paid someone too. Its not a class issue, and one of the problems of history has been focusing on the cost impacts of Environmental actions, because its been used as a means to avoid doing anything. Then they just kicked the can down the road.

The problem here, if your so inclined, one of class or class divisions, the reality is that climate change is a) real b) going to f**k with people regardless of their class status.

Doing nothing is rapidly becoming a non option, and having done nothing is creating a situation where we're looking at greater and more costly actions.
Although poor people in the Global South will face the worst of it by a country mile. It’s such bullshit, people from countries who’ve contributed next to nothing to climate change (bar China, India and a few others) bearing the brunt of it.
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  #112  
Old 25-09-2019, 04:55 PM
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Although poor people in the Global South will face the worst of it by a country mile. It’s such bullshit, people from countries who’ve contributed next to nothing to climate change (bar China, India and a few others) bearing the brunt of it.
When the shit seriously hits the fan the nicer places left on earth will be colonised by the rich with private armies guarding. The rest can fight over whatever scraps are left.
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  #113  
Old 25-09-2019, 05:02 PM
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Still no consideration that she is highly influenced by her far left mother. Being autistic its hard to say if shes super intelligent or extremely influenced to the point of being her mothers mouthpiece.

I just dont get what part 'brainwashing' dont you understand?

Why trust a 16 year olds opinion on anything of such major importance? Would u trust her on the economy, policing, crime, education..etc?

I fully get how she can 'inspire' a generation of youth but ADULTS being strung along. Very bizarre indeed. Cult like.
Maybe you should listen to her rather than listening to what people are saying about her.

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  #114  
Old 25-09-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
How many of the middle class office working eco warrior heroes have personally got up into a loft and insulated it?
I paid someone to do it. Does that make me a bad person?
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  #115  
Old 25-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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As much as we should individually and as a whole reduce our impact as humans on the planet, and strive to make things better for all creatures who live on our beautiful spinning ball (/disc if you're an idiot), it seems to be a lot of alternate agendas are being pushed, chiefly for profit over the more altruistic or moralistic aspects.

Climate change seems to me to be based on bad science. The equation we should be looking at is: Climate Change = Human Changes + Natural Variability.

Only very recently have things such as "Space Weather" been taken into account, with one paper published a week ago adding it to the climate change model. Nowhere talks of the giant burning thing in the sky that gives this planet life, or that as it goes through its natural cycles, it directly affects the weather and many things on Earth.

The Suns output includes: Waves (X-Rays, UV,Visible), Particles (Protons, Electrons), Fields (Magnetic connections, Birkeland Currents). Earth's magnetic field is intrinsically entwined with the Sun, allowing full exchange of particles that bypass the Earths protective magnetic 'shell'. Cosmic Rays (Protons, Ions - H, He, C, Fe), Atomic nuclei that break into cascades of Electrons, Positrons, Gamma Rays, Muons, Neutrons. These come from distant Supernova and other energetic events in distant space. Then there are Solar Storms, Solar Wind, all affecting the Earth's Earthquakes, Tornados, Volcanoes, Lightning, Magnetic Pole Reversal, Wind, Clouds and Human Health itself.

All of these contributing factors listed above are currently being put on the Human side of the equation. Usually unmentioned however, that since the 1940's we have been exiting the Solar grand maximum, the highest Solar maximum in over 10,000 years. Why is this rarely if ever mentioned?
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  #116  
Old 26-09-2019, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regal_eagle View Post
As much as we should individually and as a whole reduce our impact as humans on the planet, and strive to make things better for all creatures who live on our beautiful spinning ball (/disc if you're an idiot), it seems to be a lot of alternate agendas are being pushed, chiefly for profit over the more altruistic or moralistic aspects.

Climate change seems to me to be based on bad science. The equation we should be looking at is: Climate Change = Human Changes + Natural Variability.

Only very recently have things such as "Space Weather" been taken into account, with one paper published a week ago adding it to the climate change model. Nowhere talks of the giant burning thing in the sky that gives this planet life, or that as it goes through its natural cycles, it directly affects the weather and many things on Earth.

The Suns output includes: Waves (X-Rays, UV,Visible), Particles (Protons, Electrons), Fields (Magnetic connections, Birkeland Currents). Earth's magnetic field is intrinsically entwined with the Sun, allowing full exchange of particles that bypass the Earths protective magnetic 'shell'. Cosmic Rays (Protons, Ions - H, He, C, Fe), Atomic nuclei that break into cascades of Electrons, Positrons, Gamma Rays, Muons, Neutrons. These come from distant Supernova and other energetic events in distant space. Then there are Solar Storms, Solar Wind, all affecting the Earth's Earthquakes, Tornados, Volcanoes, Lightning, Magnetic Pole Reversal, Wind, Clouds and Human Health itself.

All of these contributing factors listed above are currently being put on the Human side of the equation. Usually unmentioned however, that since the 1940's we have been exiting the Solar grand maximum, the highest Solar maximum in over 10,000 years. Why is this rarely if ever mentioned?
Errrr....well I did my loft
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  #117  
Old 26-09-2019, 05:31 AM
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I work in the energy industry so spent a week at World Energy Congress recently. The largest single delegation was from Saudi. Its striking how the officials of the world’s largest oil exporter are adapting their long term plans to deal with climate change and innovating their business model to reduce their carbon footprint. This has changed dramatically over the past five years. But then you won’t really find people who work in energy who don’t accept man made climate change any more. Climate change denial is peculiar to the English speaking world, those on the right and the non-scientific layman.
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  #118  
Old 26-09-2019, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
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What was your point? You think you know better than the combined intellect of the world's science community?
You're still doing it.
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  #119  
Old 26-09-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I paid someone to do it. Does that make me a bad person?
TBF its the easiest bit of diy going, just get the rolls into the attic and roll them out. In my house the heating never comes on upstairs at all.

Although I suppose as a paid for job its comparatively low cost. On the other hand I expect the acreage to be covered in Maz Hall does push the price up.
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  #120  
Old 26-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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IMHO we each have an individual responsibility to do what we can to contribute not only to help reduce the effects of not only climate change but also general pollution and to pinch a slogan from the 60's "keep Britain tidy" although with more travel add "and the world"

At the same time if everybody does their but to pressure governments and industry to reduce energy consumption and pollution then progress can be made.
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