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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?
4-4-2 16 44.44%
4-3-3 20 55.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 18-05-2019, 12:00 PM
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4-4-2 or 4-3-3 next season?

Last summer we played the entire pre-season in a 4-4-2. We then started the season in the 4-4-2, but quickly reverted to 4-3-3. (Admittedly we lost Benteke to injury very early on.) We finished the season strongly in a 4-4-2 with notable highlights being the Arsenal away game (4-4-2) and Bournemouth at home (4-4-2) where we scored FIVE goals at home - our previous best in the other 18 games was two goals. I can also remember many games where we started 4-3-3 and won the points after switching to 4-4-2 late on leading to a massive improvement.

What are people's thoughts on what formation we should play next season under Hodgson?
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Old 18-05-2019, 12:16 PM
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One of your better threads GF.

I think this is so important personally as the systems shape your recruitment and are both conflictive in my eyes.

Take last year for example, we didn't quite need to sign Kouyate we needed to replace Cabaye.

I've been anti Roy this season because the football has been dire and he hasn't got it right. But Hodgsons 442 is the best football I've personally ever seen at selhurst. The high tempo, quick short passing in the final third with the full backs underlapping is a joy to watch and kills teams.

If Hodgson builds off that 442 we need a proper holding playermaker next to Luka ideally. Meyer looked perfect floating in that wide left role against Bournemouth. A couple of forwards is what would make us tick even more in this system.

The board need to really think long and hard about the identity and longer term picture they want to set for the club. There's no point recruiting players for a system which will change in a years time. Otherwise you end up with a squad as unbalanced from Riedewald and Schlupp.
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Old 18-05-2019, 12:26 PM
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Every time we try to reinvent the way we play or change the nature of what we do the results are toilet so we would be better trying to do what we do well better.
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Old 18-05-2019, 12:32 PM
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Meyer isn't the replacement for Cabaye or even an AM, he is just the better at it right now. Saying that I think that McArthur has been the most attacking of our midfielders during the past couple of seasons as Roy has often preferred 2 defensive mids. This changed to 1 against Bournemouth as both Meyer and McArthur seemed to play higher up the pitch which is maybe why the game has 8 goals.
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Old 18-05-2019, 01:25 PM
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4-4-2 or 4-3-3 next season?

You can’t play the same system in every game. The opposition eventually work you out. All the good managers generally will change the shape or the system which to be fair Roy did last season. His first season here we played 4-4-2 and started this season of with a 4-4-2 but he did eventually change it to a 4-3-3 or sometimes a 4-5-1 but towards the end of the season he went back to the 4-4-2. However our problem especially at home has been the unbalance in the midfield something that needs addressing this summer.
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Old 18-05-2019, 01:33 PM
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One of your better threads GF.

I think this is so important personally as the systems shape your recruitment and are both conflictive in my eyes.

Take last year for example, we didn't quite need to sign Kouyate we needed to replace Cabaye.

I've been anti Roy this season because the football has been dire and he hasn't got it right. But Hodgsons 442 is the best football I've personally ever seen at selhurst. The high tempo, quick short passing in the final third with the full backs underlapping is a joy to watch and kills teams.

If Hodgson builds off that 442 we need a proper holding playermaker next to Luka ideally. Meyer looked perfect floating in that wide left role against Bournemouth. A couple of forwards is what would make us tick even more in this system.

The board need to really think long and hard about the identity and longer term picture they want to set for the club. There's no point recruiting players for a system which will change in a years time. Otherwise you end up with a squad as unbalanced from Riedewald and Schlupp.
Thank you

I started this thread because before we can identify recruitment targets we need to figure out what formation we actually want to play. There's no point recruiting for 4-4-2 if we are going to play 4-3-3 and vice versa. One of my biggest disappointments at the start of last season was that for once we had a proper pre-season with a manager in place throughout (!) and yet we just threw all the planning away as soon as Benteke got injured switching from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 after only a couple of games. Muddled thinking, or muddled recruitment to not have a back-up centre forward?

As for the summer signings, I too was disappointed with the purchase of Kouyate if funds were limited as I assumed he would be basically back-up for Milivojevic in the holding role, and that has been the only signing I predicted correctly: he has failed to hold down a starting berth, and will only start if players get injured. I had also assumed Meyer would play next to Milivojevic in a box-to-box defensive holding role (as he had done for Schalke), and I had assumed Ayew would play left midfield (as he had done for Swansea), and I got both of those very wrong, but at least now we know where we are: Meyer is only considered as a left mid, and Ayew is only considered as a striker if we are to play 4-4-2. In addition, McArthur is first choice box-to-box defensive holding mid.

I agree with you that the 4-4-2 at the end of last season (with Cabaye and RLC) was some of the best football we have played since the early 90s. That was real champagne football. The performances and results this season whilst not as marked also suggest that, unlike the 4-3-3, the narrow 4-4-2 with the attacking full backs suits the squad. And that is why I would stick to it, and recruit accordingly. Indeed, whilst I had been keen to see a winger brought in I recognise that actually that won't suit Roy's style. So, I'm happy for Meyer to be given a chance left midfield. He doesn't offer the ball carrying of RLC, but he is excellent technically and has gradually improved defensively as the season has gone on. I think he can give more protection to PVA, and we will just have to accept that we won't be quite as attacking as we were in that golden spell. Hopefully we can be slightly better defensively.

Overall I'm also in agreement with you that the box-to-box holding midfield slot next to Milivojevic should be a priority. McArthur is fine but getting older, and Kouyate and Milivojevic as a pairing lacks passing ability. That's why I would like to see Philip Billing as I think he'd offer the attributes we need: left footed, decent passer, physical, can tackle, can cover the ground and bonus of the long throw. Isaac Hayden would be my back up if we can't get PB. Also, really hope that Luke Dreher can force his way into the squad next season. From the little I have seen and heard about him, he is all-action, and good passer with a decent frame. Perhaps he will start off on the bench as a replacement for Townsend right midfield? Let's see, but he is surely a Hodgson player.

As for up front in the 4-4-2 we have Benteke, Zaha and Wickham. I assume we will also try to do a deal for Ayew if he's as cheap as has been rumoured (4m) and he's happy to be 4th or 5th choice. It's not his best position imho, but if he's prepared to do a job for the team and work hard defending from the front he could make a contribution off the bench when we are looking to close out a game. We will also need another striker. Batshuayi is an incredible finisher, but I can see Chelsea wanting to keep him. Besides he is not great at holding it up, which is an issue especially away from home. My first choice would be Danny Welbeck on a free. Think he'd do well with Wilf as he works very hard, is mobile and can hold it up, although he doesn't have the best goalscoring record. An alternative is Mitrovic, but he'd cost £30m. And Tammy Abraham, but would Chelsea sell him, and Villa might be ahead of us in the queue if they win promotion.

Other areas that aren't priorities I'd look to would be a goalkeeper and 3rd choice centre back. Guaita and Hennessey are both 32, and although not that old in goalie terms, they are getting on. If Butland who is 26 is seriously available and we have the funds we should go for him. Even more importantly though we need a 3rd choice centre back. Sakho and Tomkins are injury prone, and Dann/Kelly can be improved on. I'd favour a young fast centre back with the pace to cover AWB when he bombs forward. But ultimately it's all about choosing the formation we want to play first! Apologies for the long post.
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Old 18-05-2019, 02:45 PM
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Old 18-05-2019, 04:52 PM
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4231

Meyer behind the striker.
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Old 18-05-2019, 04:54 PM
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4231

Meyer behind the striker.

^^^^^^^^^
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Old 18-05-2019, 05:50 PM
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So much will depend on who stays and who goes as there could be some vital players like Zaha, AWB, Sakho and possibly even Luka and PVA moving on, each and every one of those will be a huge loss so who we actually bring in as replacements will be crucial.
As for what system/formation we should adapt will be dependant on the above mentioned situation, if we were to lose say WZ and AWB it would be a massive loss and very hard to replace so without question it will change the dynamics of our play both at the Back but also the creativity upfront of our game, hence change will be needed. Personally i would not be unhappy if Roy considered a 3-5-2, with a Back Three of----Chambers--Tomkins--Sakho, that allows PVA to play a game more suited to him with less defensive duties to worry about, and at Right Wing Back either Reece James or Bogle at Derby is full of energy and looks a good prospect.
The Midfield offcourse it has to be Luka with Meyer alongside who i am sure will be excellent next season, and bring in an attacking midfielder like Max Kruse who's scoring record looks impressive and may well work well with MM, as for the Strikers it will be dependant on what the club is willing to spend, but in that setup it needs a more fluid pairing and i feel Danny Welbeck with his hardrunning and workrate is ideal and to complement him with a goalpoacher, Neal Maupay could be that ideal player.
This would be my formation and lineup .

--------------------------------------Guiata------------------------------------------

----------------------Chambers----------Tomkins-------------Sakho------------------

--------Reece James-------Luka--------Meyer--------Kruse-------PVA------------

---------------------------------Welbeck---------Maupay-----------------------
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Old 18-05-2019, 05:52 PM
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4231

Meyer behind the striker.
Hodgson has never played 4-2-3-1 in any game this season or last IIRC. Would you like to see a change of manager?
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Old 18-05-2019, 05:56 PM
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LOL to who suggested wingbacks
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Old 18-05-2019, 08:37 PM
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Hodgson has never played 4-2-3-1 in any game this season or last IIRC. Would you like to see a change of manager?
No, I’d like to see him play a formation to suit our better footballing players when Wilf leaves.

Our home form has been dog shit, so why not try something different, however impossible that may seem.
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Old 18-05-2019, 08:54 PM
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I quite liked Ajax’s formation when Tottenham’s 3rd goal went in.
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Old 18-05-2019, 09:22 PM
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Why do people keep suggesting Meyer as playing behind the striker, when that wasn't his position when we bought him and he has been reliably reported(I believe) to not like it or believe that to be his best role?

No idea if he can do that role but interested why people are deciding he can?
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Old 19-05-2019, 07:56 AM
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I also think Ollie Watkins would thrive in Hodgsons 442 setup. Has good movement, can run with the ball and a good eye for goal.
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Old 19-05-2019, 08:45 AM
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Why do people keep suggesting Meyer as playing behind the striker, when that wasn't his position when we bought him and he has been reliably reported(I believe) to not like it or believe that to be his best role?

No idea if he can do that role but interested why people are deciding he can?
He can’t play left midfield or on the wing but Hodgson insists on doing it.

I’d prefer he played alongside Luka with someone ahead of him, but we all know that that won’t happen under Roy.
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Old 19-05-2019, 09:23 AM
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4-3-3 suits us best but we need a new striker to make this formation work as we don’t have a striker on our books who can be relied upon to play that role. Benteke is crap and injury prone; Wickham is so injury prone that he definitely can’t be relied upon; Sorloth obviously isn’t rated by the manger.

We also need a creative midfielder - this is critical. Our midfield is solid but stodgy - too many of them are too similar. We need some creative variety in there alongside Luka and ideally Meyer who will go from strength to strength.

Left back is the other area of concern. I’d like us to sell PvA and get someone who knows how to defend. That would enable us to be more creative in our midfield selection. I think part of the reason we play such a defensive midfield is to cover PvA’s defensive inadequacies.
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Old 19-05-2019, 09:35 AM
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I’m sure the palace coaching staff are reading this with great interest
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Old 19-05-2019, 08:39 PM
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I’m sure the palace coaching staff are reading this with great interest
Indeed.
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