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  #221  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Nah, I think Bubbs is an excellent poster, but he is falling into the trap of excusing nationalists and racists. Which Id imagine is quite easy to do considering how normalised their rhetoric is in our media these days. When the likes of Farage are given so much airtime and coverage, their views might not seem so extreme or socially unacceptable anymore.
Socially unacceptable to who? Look at the polling for the Brexit party alone, there's every indication his views are socially acceptable.

He's given so much air time because people want to hear him.
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  #222  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:53 AM
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Hosking and Parish both public supporters of Brexit, bit shit.
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  #223  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Being intolerant towards the tolerance of intolerance isnt intolerance.
That's not your position, its intolerance of other people's views.
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  #224  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
Hosking and Parish both public supporters of Brexit, bit shit.
Only if you are a remainer.
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  #225  
Old 19-05-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Being intolerant towards the tolerance of intolerance isnt intolerance.
That is the stock answer, but does not apply satisfactorily when the comment in question is asking for tolerance
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  #226  
Old 19-05-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
If you apply the opposite to what you quoted in bold then it makes no sense and has no relevance to Bubbs' post.

You support Farage and his racist views. You have no shame in that. But maybe you should? Because it's actually pretty nasty and the thin end of the wedge. Seriously. Have a proper think about what you are cheerleading.
I am not cheerleading anything, just countering your blind hatred for different opinion and the associated hogwash you spout. There is a middle ground, Bubbs stated it, but you wont see that
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  #227  
Old 19-05-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Hitler also did his murders in what, 12 years? He beats Mao and Stalin by a mile if you look at time-death ratio.
He's the card you want in despots' Top Trumps, fo sho.
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  #228  
Old 19-05-2019, 09:28 PM
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Stalin was just as bad.
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  #229  
Old 20-05-2019, 11:00 AM
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As Farage? Worse, I think.
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  #230  
Old 23-05-2019, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
Hosking and Parish both public supporters of Brexit, bit shit.
Why? Because they have a different opinion to you? Is everyone who has a different opinion to you '' a bit shit''?

I thought that we were supposed to be living in a democracy where individuals opinions counted no matter whether they were right or wrong. Oh silly me.

. Tell me, because the clubs benefactors and possible saviours have a different opinion will you change the club you support?
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  #231  
Old 23-05-2019, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
Why? Because they have a different opinion to you? Is everyone who has a different opinion to you '' a bit shit''?

I thought that we were supposed to be living in a democracy where individuals opinions counted no matter whether they were right or wrong. Oh silly me.

. Tell me, because the clubs benefactors and possible saviours have a different opinion will you change the club you support?
The shrill voice of the left wing quasi fascist can be heard loudest these days
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  #232  
Old 23-05-2019, 06:10 AM
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Dartz.

Hmmmm.
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  #233  
Old 23-05-2019, 07:47 AM
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Is Farage a racist being driven by irrational gut territorial instincts or does he reach his conclusions surrounding immigration and it's overall impacts through a genuine interpretation of the facts, figures and general societal impacts? The reality is it could be the latter and he would still be called a racist by those that have accepted that immigration is a wholly positive thing for peoples lives and the wealth and running of the country. That's just the way the debate is.

FWIW i think he has trodden some dubious lines in order to win votes. However his anti EU stance has pre dated the debate being synonymous with the debate on immigration (pre dated the eastern european inclusion). So i don't think racism or being anti immigrant was his main motivation.

An area I do feel more comfortable agreeing with him is the workings and waste at the EU. I don't really understand how the commission is formed and therefore whether i trust it being democratic, it seems to me that we only really get to vote on the european equivalent of a house of lords (perhaps with more real powers in reality but very much an approval or rejection rather than initiating legislation). Without having studied it, the EU parliament seems really rather expensive and complicated.
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  #234  
Old 23-05-2019, 09:47 AM
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Nope.

Farage is a businessman/entertainer who enjoys a very lucrative career ranting against the EU. I think he is racist beneath it all, but his public emissions of maybe-racism are calculated tactical moves for his personal enrichment.
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  #235  
Old 23-05-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scro View Post

An area I do feel more comfortable agreeing with him is the workings and waste at the EU. I don't really understand how the commission is formed and therefore whether i trust it being democratic, it seems to me that we only really get to vote on the european equivalent of a house of lords (perhaps with more real powers in reality but very much an approval or rejection rather than initiating legislation). Without having studied it, the EU parliament seems really rather expensive and complicated.
"The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation, and it implements the decisions of the European Parliament and the Council of the EU."

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It isn't democratic. It is the European equivalent of the civil service. Do you think we shouldn't have a civil service?

The European parliament is pretty much the opposite of the house of Lords. Hence why you are getting a vote on it today.

FFS - how are we still discussing this stuff.
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  #236  
Old 23-05-2019, 10:12 AM
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What Farage and his ilk do is disingenuously blame the EU for problems in our society which our governments over the last 40 years have exacerbated, mis-managed, enabled and ignored.
27 of the 40 years have seen The Tories in power so they've held the reins for nearly 70% of that time. It's not the EU that should be taking the flak but The Conservative Party.

That would mean an admission of guilt by their members and supporters and voters though and that's not going to happen so they blame others for their own selfish and iniquitous decisions when there is negative fallout.

It's always disappointing when you hear of a Brexit supporter who should know better and not be so blinkered and taken in by a two-bit demagogue like Farage. That guy wasn't suspended from a class at Dulwich College for no reason: it was for "loud racism" - And this was before words like Muslim and Islam were even used by the general population in everyday parlance so one would assume his comments, whatever they were, would have been the usual derogatory terms back then about the West Indian and Indian communities and not about other religious faiths.

Vote for Nige? Well yeah sure, free country, but accept that it means you are either 1) Gullible and impressionable 2) A Racist or xenophobe or Islamophobe.

Either way it doesn't put you in a good light.

At least the Hard Left hate the entity that is the EU from an anti-capitalist angle rather than use it as a excuse to pick on other human beings.

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  #237  
Old 23-05-2019, 10:54 AM
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The guy is a racist. He was a fascist in his younger days - i can accept people can change but when they change from far right to slightly less far right, then it isn’t sincere.
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  #238  
Old 23-05-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
"The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation, and it implements the decisions of the European Parliament and the Council of the EU."

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It isn't democratic. It is the European equivalent of the civil service. Do you think we shouldn't have a civil service?

The European parliament is pretty much the opposite of the house of Lords. Hence why you are getting a vote on it today.

FFS - how are we still discussing this stuff.
I don't think being the house that approves or rejects legislation presented to it from another chamber is the opposite to the house of lords.. however much you bang your head. I didn't say the way the house of lords is appointed is democratic i was merely talking about function.

Also interesting you see the commision as the civil service. Another comparison i don't think fits particularly.
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  #239  
Old 23-05-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
I don't think being the house that approves or rejects legislation presented to it from another chamber is the opposite to the house of lords.. however much you bang your head. I didn't say the way the house of lords is appointed is democratic i was merely talking about function.

Also interesting you see the commision as the civil service. Another comparison i don't think fits particularly.
The commissioners are proposed by the council (elected) and appointed by the approval of the parliament (elected). Therefore the governments of the individual countries send people to the commission to push for legislature in their interests. This is then worked on and voted on by the parliament (elected) and the council (elected).

Do you reckon our MPS write all our legislature? Do you reckon Olly Robbins and his team, for example, had anything to do with the withdrawal treaty or did Domonic Raab write it?

Of course the civil servants propose the legislature to our parliament at the approval of the various ministers and then our parliament votes on it. Of course the ministers have teams of civil servants working on legislature in the interests of the government. Its how it works.

What's the difference?
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  #240  
Old 23-05-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
..I thought that we were supposed to be living in a democracy where individuals opinions counted no matter whether they were right or wrong. Oh silly me. ?
That makes no sense at all. People of course have the 'right' to have opinions. There is certainly no 'right' to have them treat with respect nor with equality, regardless of their validity. Not sure what 'counted' really means in your context?
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