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  #201  
Old 18-05-2019, 02:16 PM
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  #202  
Old 18-05-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
The words ‘racist’, ‘fascist’, ‘white suprematist’ and ‘Nazi’ get banded about far too loosely these days for my liking.

It’s divisive and when left leaning people come out with these labels so easily and freely to describe people who are quite frankly just on the right, they push people who have become disillusioned with today’s neo lib version of liberalism, even further away and, yes you’ve guessed it - to the right. Populism thrives on all that.

What you are doing by throwing around labels like that to people like Farage, Boris, JRM etc (all politicians who go against everything I believe in btw) is legitimise the real far right nutters and white race supremacists today and in the past. Such a dangerous thing to do.

Unfortunately the absolute stupidity and irresponsibility of Cameron calling a referendum in the binary ‘Leave’ ‘Remain’ fashion he did, has turned this country into some kind of X Factor style ‘stay’ or ‘go home’ braying crowd. You are either ‘yes’ or ‘no’, ‘good or evil’, ‘black or white’....it’s just all so divisive and the nature of such a referendum was always going to make the population react this way.

What a feckin mess.
What you are actually doing there is trying to rationalise and excuse the current lurch towards nationalism and increasing racism and xenophobia by blaming those who are calling it out for what it is.

Farage is a racist. Pure and simple. If someone can't see that then I suggest they take a good look at themselves. If a person can only see positivity in his messages of hate then they are probably not good human beings.
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  #203  
Old 18-05-2019, 05:39 PM
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Quite.

Don’t call Farage a racist because it’s divisive? Maybe Farage being a racist is more divisive.
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  #204  
Old 18-05-2019, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
What you are actually doing there is trying to rationalise and excuse the current lurch towards nationalism and increasing racism and xenophobia by blaming those who are calling it out for what it is.

Farage is a racist. Pure and simple. If someone can't see that then I suggest they take a good look at themselves. If a person can only see positivity in his messages of hate then they are probably not good human beings.
Bubbs is saying the opposite of that but you are so blinded you don't even see it. His post is good. Poor show on your part.
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  #205  
Old 18-05-2019, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Bubbs is saying the opposite of that but you are so blinded you don't even see it. His post is good. Poor show on your part.
Nah, I think Bubbs is an excellent poster, but he is falling into the trap of excusing nationalists and racists. Which I’d imagine is quite easy to do considering how normalised their rhetoric is in our media these days. When the likes of Farage are given so much airtime and coverage, their views might not seem so extreme or socially unacceptable anymore.

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  #206  
Old 18-05-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Nah, I think Bubbs is an excellent poster, but he is falling into the trap of excusing nationalists and racists. Which I’d imagine is quite easy to do considering how normalised their rhetoric is in our media these days. When the likes of Farage are given so much airtime and coverage, their views might not seem so extreme or socially unacceptable anymore.
You are coming across as intolerant about what is a sensible and fair post
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  #207  
Old 18-05-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
You are coming across as intolerant about what is a sensible and fair post
Being intolerant towards the tolerance of intolerance isn’t intolerance.
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  #208  
Old 18-05-2019, 08:22 PM
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I think this should just be pinned to the top of the political forum tbh

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  #209  
Old 18-05-2019, 08:44 PM
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  #210  
Old 18-05-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
I think this should just be pinned to the top of the political forum tbh

Interesting that an image of national socialism is shown as intolerance, which of course it was, but also as guilty was the communist regime of Joseph Stalin who I think murdered even more people than the nazis
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  #211  
Old 18-05-2019, 09:08 PM
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Communist mass murderers tend to murder just their own people (because of paranoia) whereas far right killers - nazis- like to kill anyone and everyone that don't support them or make them feel a bit quesy.

Think the Nazis actually murdered the most but there were more unnecessary deaths under Stalin a la the Holomodor.
. His actual murders were in the many hundreds of thousands.
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  #212  
Old 18-05-2019, 09:20 PM
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Hitler also did his murders in what, 12 years? He beats Mao and Stalin by a mile if you look at time-death ratio.
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  #213  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Bubbs is saying the opposite of that but you are so blinded you don't even see it. His post is good. Poor show on your part.
If you apply the opposite to what you quoted in bold then it makes no sense and has no relevance to Bubbs' post.

You support Farage and his racist views. You have no shame in that. But maybe you should? Because it's actually pretty nasty and the thin end of the wedge. Seriously. Have a proper think about what you are cheerleading.
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  #214  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
You are coming across as intolerant about what is a sensible and fair post
There was no intolerance shown in that post at all. You're just crying it as an excuse for people to say nasty things.

You can have your freedom of speech to be an arsehole, but if someone tells you that you are being an arsehole, that's not intolerance.
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  #215  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old geezer View Post
Interesting that an image of national socialism is shown as intolerance, which of course it was, but also as guilty was the communist regime of Joseph Stalin who I think murdered even more people than the nazis
What's your point? The nazis are being hard done by because Stalin doesn't appear in the same meme? Make your own if it's that important.
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  #216  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
I think this should just be pinned to the top of the political forum tbh

Looks good in an infographic, but far too simplistic in my opinion. If you hide behind the argument "I don't tolerate the intolerant because Nazi's" you'll fail to understand the reasons why nationalism and intolerant views rise in the first place.

Fighting fire with fire might be applicable dependent on the situation but I'd rather give the 'intelligent' idiots that are held in such esteem, the platform they need to allow rational discussion to show them up for the idiots they are. Farage being a prime example, he's been made to look real stupid recently and that does far more damage to his campaign than just calling him a racist or a Nazi. Give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves as the old saying goes.

Granted, the above isn't really suitable in the face of the worst of the worst that can't be reasoned with or are unable to even articulate their 'point' in a way which could be considered rational/civil. But that's where you allow the law and legislation to take hold. Free speech isn't and shouldn't be used as an excuse to be an arsehole for the sake of it I agree. Genuine hate speech should always be dealt with robustly.

We should always be open to dialogue with people who's views might challenge our own or even offend though. Try to understand why people view things the way they do, and there's always a chance that logic and reason will be able to bring people back to their senses.

I'm of the belief that harsh economic climates and issues whether political or economic will always lead to a rise in the number of people identifying as nationalistic. People look for people/things to blame when times are bad, and the only ones offering quick fixes and peddling easy answers are usually the extreme of the political spectrum. They prey on peoples vulnerability and use circumstance to push agendas that are usually false and just outright lies.

If we address these issues and concerns people have, they'd be far less likely to buy into the shite spewed.

Am I wrong? quite possibly. But you don't put out fires by pouring on more fuel, remove the oxygen (the concerns people have) and bring economic equality to a fairer level and I'm pretty sure most of these problems would disappear with time and the fire would essentially be put out, with the loons returning to the fringes of politics and remaining there until the next crisis they seek to take advantage of.
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  #217  
Old 19-05-2019, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
What you are actually doing there is trying to rationalise and excuse the current lurch towards nationalism and increasing racism and xenophobia by blaming those who are calling it out for what it is.

Farage is a racist. Pure and simple. If someone can't see that then I suggest they take a good look at themselves. If a person can only see positivity in his messages of hate then they are probably not good human beings.
I don't really think he's done anything of the sort. He's certainly not excused it as far as I can see?

If you don't rationalise things then how are you ever going to understand and address the issue of the increase in nationalism/racism/xenophobia? Reacting in kind doesn't solve anything.
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  #218  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Hitler also did his murders in what, 12 years? He beats Mao and Stalin by a mile if you look at time-death ratio.
No one beats Mao. Some estimates of the deaths in the first 3 years of the cultural revolution are as much as 45mil.
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  #219  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:45 AM
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  #220  
Old 19-05-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Quite.

Don’t call Farage a racist because it’s divisive? Maybe Farage being a racist is more divisive.
Is he, when was he charged with it.

I realise on this site it might be fashionable to be the first to shout racist it might be helpful to point to some racist action he has taken.

If there is evidence of racism then he would be charged with it. There are enough people looking at him. Otherwise its just faux posturing.

Here's Trevor Phillips on Farage.

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