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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: Which best describes you?
Currently in Holmesdale Lower, if rail seats (ie standing) are installed I want to be in them 145 40.50%
Currently in Holmesdale Lower - would choose a seating area if back of lower became standing 30 8.38%
Currently NOT IN Holmesdale Lower but would love to move to rail seating (standing) 103 28.77%
Not in Lower tier, and no interest in being in any standing area 63 17.60%
MOO! 17 4.75%
Voters: 358. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:15 PM
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David Mellor (Tory MP) loved football. I think there was a researched article in The Sun about him banging a prostitute whilst dressed in a Chelsea kit. Not all Tories hated football. Lord Coe was a reasonable chap.
What did for terraces was Ken Bates initiative of a 'ring of steel' and a load of pl55ed-up scousers turning up late for a football match. (actually, is was Duckendive, the match commander, and his alleged liquid refreshments before the game)

The introduction of safe-standing has given the club a "Get out of Jail Free" card, from a diabolical situation of their own making.

Another opportunity,.....to fck things up.
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  #62  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
That's Ken Bates, who wanted to electrify the terrace fences. Maybe what Elgin should have said more accurately was they hated ordinary football fans.
Yes, thats true. Anyone with any passion or life should get electrocuted according to Bates. Moneyed corporate wankers were ok.
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  #63  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:19 PM
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I thought the issue was more that the police didn't shut the gates to the central pens when they could see from their control tower overlooking that end that they were full and that the outer pens were still half empty.
Yes thats my understanding too. Then not getting authority to open gates in the fences. Hopefully it wont be like Block E next season.
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  #64  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exiledeagle1 View Post
The Dell had a diagonal on the pitchside stands, standing at the back with seats in the front.

The Dell had a very strange configuration, I managed to get into three of the four sides over the several seasons I watched Palace play there.

I think many of those that stood in the away section on the Archer's Road away terracing will agree it was quite the worst bit of terracing ever in top flight football, narrow and hardly room to move with our usual away following - I think only Luton and QPR challenged it for the worst away end during our previous eras in the old First Division.
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  #65  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:23 PM
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Thatcher hated football - and almost introduced ID cards for football. But Hillsborough rather changed the narrative, so I think Maz is right that there was all party support to implement the findings of the Taylor report. (I may be wrong, but I think that's also what killed off ID cards.)
There was huge pressure on government and football to implement the recommendations of Lord Justice Taylorís report at that time, and it was supported across govt.

Interestingly, his recommendation wasnít really anti-standing as such, but that every spectator should have a designated seat. This was to control numbers more accurately and prevent overcrowding. The new rail seating initiative could well still meet his advice...but would need to remain one seat/space per person, as others have said.

His other recommendations also included the introduction of better turnstiles to help control the flow of fans and ensure that tickets were checked. This helps make any log jams occur outside the ground in the concourses and streets, where there should be more space to cope with crowd flow. People tend to focus on the standing issue, but the report did help change more than that.

Hillsborough was an awful combination of issues, and whilst itís true that the fences prevented swift evacuation, the organisers/authorities were also at fault for not correctly supervising the flow of the crowd outside and inside the ground.
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  #67  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP Satellite View Post
The Dell had a very strange configuration, I managed to get into three of the four sides over the several seasons I watched Palace play there.

I think many of those that stood in the away section on the Archer's Road away terracing will agree it was quite the worst bit of terracing ever in top flight football, narrow and hardly room to move with our usual away following - I think only Luton and QPR challenged it for the worst away end during our previous eras in the old First Division.
Think it was Watford, but didn't the away area be down one side? and if you had to sit in the front couple of rows you literally couldn't see over the pitch side wall !!
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  #68  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:30 PM
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Lots of issues added up to the disaster but if it had been unfenced those crushed at the front would have just been able to step onto the pitch. Nobody ever died from a pitch invasion as far as I know but stopping these was considered more important than our safety.
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  #69  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:42 PM
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Ideal scenario is there is enough people in the whole ground who want to stand/rail seating and they all move to lower Holmesdale. Everyone who doesn't in lower will need to fill the gaps elsewhere in ground. I would also ensure that a certain % is left as not season ticket holders to try and encourage the next generation to come through by having tickets available on a game by game basis in the area that is vibrant and loud.

If not enough people then other options to be explored.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bald-eagle View Post
Think it was Watford, but didn't the away area be down one side? and if you had to sit in the front couple of rows you literally couldn't see over the pitch side wall !!
Watford had the very shallowest rake or slope to their away terracing I've experienced anywhere, so if you were'nt particularly tall and not towards the front, you would be looking mainly at other fans shoulders and the backs of their heads etc, so yes, another example of how crap some old terracing used to be.
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  #71  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AddiscombeEagle View Post
Ideal scenario is there is enough people in the whole ground who want to stand/rail seating and they all move to lower Holmesdale. Everyone who doesn't in lower will need to fill the gaps elsewhere in ground. I would also ensure that a certain % is left as not season ticket holders to try and encourage the next generation to come through by having tickets available on a game by game basis in the area that is vibrant and loud.

If not enough people then other options to be explored.
That would be the ideal outcome. It's all or nothing with rail seating, otherwise you have problems with less mobile people at the front:

*who then have access difficulties
* Sight lines are potentially obstructed
* Are last in the refreshment queue/toilets at HT
*Are last out of the ground at FT
* Get pi5hed on when it rains
* Have a 5hlt view

make the whole LH rail seating is the obvious answer to a total reset.
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  #72  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:10 PM
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I've never stood in a rail seating area - but there always seems to be excitement whenever its discussed. What's the advantages to the supporter compared to just standing normally? Less chance of bruised shins as its more restrictive/confined?
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  #73  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:15 PM
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Yes, I think so.

More importantly, though, you then have a clear delineation between standing and seating areas. Stewards would then be expected to be much stricter about no standing in the seating areas; and fans who can’t/don’t want to stand won’t be in conflict with fans who do as can happen now.
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  #74  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sniper View Post
I've never stood in a rail seating area - but there always seems to be excitement whenever its discussed. What's the advantages to the supporter compared to just standing normally? Less chance of bruised shins as its more restrictive/confined?
Everyone has a rail to lean on

No 'domino' collapses of rows of fans onto each other if someone falls forward (as they have their own rail to grab which will stop them)

Literally everyone stands, so more likely singing gets going as likeminded young or 'traditional' vocal fans all know where to get their tickets

Nobody nagging you to 'siddown' as everyone knows it is the standing area

Closest you'll ever get these days to the old terraces for those who miss them,and those who are too young to have enjoyed them
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  #75  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by foresthillbilly View Post
David Mellor (Tory MP) loved football. I think there was a researched article in The Sun about him banging a prostitute whilst dressed in a Chelsea kit. Not all Tories hated football. Lord Coe was a reasonable chap.
What did for terraces was Ken Bates initiative of a 'ring of steel' and a load of pl55ed-up scousers turning up late for a football match. (actually, is was Duckendive, the match commander, and his alleged liquid refreshments before the game)

The introduction of safe-standing has given the club a "Get out of Jail Free" card, from a diabolical situation of their own making.

Another opportunity,.....to fck things up.
Mellor and Major only came out as football fans once Thatcher had been given the boot. The Spineless bastards. Also Mellor was a Fulham fan before Chelsea became more succesful.
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  #76  
Old 06-11-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by old git View Post
Lots of issues added up to the disaster but if it had been unfenced those crushed at the front would have just been able to step onto the pitch. Nobody ever died from a pitch invasion as far as I know but stopping these was considered more important than our safety.
Another point that is always overlooked in this argument is the Bradford fire, and how many people died in the seated area. This is completely ignored when discussing the safety of all seater stadiums.
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  #77  
Old 06-11-2018, 06:51 PM
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A standing area at the back and possibly along the outer edges makes perfect sense.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
Another point that is always overlooked in this argument is the Bradford fire, and how many people died in the seated area. This is completely ignored when discussing the safety of all seater stadiums.

The exits were all locked at the back of the seating area and no one was around to open them so a lot of the dead were found by the locked exit gates. The fire also spread quickly as they stored rubbish under the wooden stand. A lot of lessons were learned that day.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by eagles #1 View Post
Good news. Get the whole lower tier standing.
This.

Should be the whole lower tier, not just the back.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai View Post
A standing area at the back and possibly along the outer edges makes perfect sense.
I reckon it's all or nothing for LH.
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