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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: Which best describes you?
Currently in Holmesdale Lower, if rail seats (ie standing) are installed I want to be in them 145 40.50%
Currently in Holmesdale Lower - would choose a seating area if back of lower became standing 30 8.38%
Currently NOT IN Holmesdale Lower but would love to move to rail seating (standing) 103 28.77%
Not in Lower tier, and no interest in being in any standing area 63 17.60%
MOO! 17 4.75%
Voters: 358. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 21-11-2018, 09:21 AM
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Why can’t you just put rail seating in? It’s still a seat but safer when fans stand up?
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  #122  
Old 21-11-2018, 09:27 AM
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The club won't do anything until safe standing is approved.

If safe standing is approved, I think you will then see a clampdown on standing in other areas - so at that stage the club will probably act.

But that's pure conjecture on my part.
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  #123  
Old 21-11-2018, 09:51 AM
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i'm sure there will be at least two provisos when the government finally approves safe standing:

1. 1:1 ratio
2. A limit on the number of safe standing seats linked to the stadium's capacity.
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  #124  
Old 21-11-2018, 09:58 AM
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i'm sure there will be at least two provisos when the government finally approves safe standing:

1. 1:1 ratio
2. A limit on the number of safe standing seats linked to the stadium's capacity.
You may well be right, but I struggle to see the argument for the second of these (other than possibly an interim measure to test how well it works - surely there's no long term argument for a limit; if it's safe, it's safe and then numbers should be based on demand).

As I said above, point 3 for me will be a return to stronger enforcement on no persistent standing in other areas.
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  #125  
Old 21-11-2018, 10:13 AM
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As mentioned in the OP to this thread, the new 'Green Guide' which regulates stadium safety did not go as far as allowing standing in rail seated areas in the top two divisions

That would be for the new Sports Minister to push through legislation.

It did however allow flip up seats with rails to be installed in any ground, on the proviso that clubs have procedures in place to get fans in such areas to sit. Which the club already have (but don't bother trying to get fans to sit as it is a pointless waste of time and resources)

I suspect the club won't want to fork out £££ for thousands of expensive flip up rail seats (like Spurs have 7500 of) until either the government finish their review and formally allow standing in such areas, or until the arrangement at Spurs becomes so accepted that other clubs start installing it.

All eyes will be on Spurs when their ground opens, and whether or not they successfully enforce sitting in their railed areas.
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  #126  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:30 AM
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i'm sure there will be at least two provisos when the government finally approves safe standing:

1. 1:1 ratio
2. A limit on the number of safe standing seats linked to the stadium's capacity.
So thinking this through we might get 400 standers, based on our capacity.
That would be handy.
/sarcasm off
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  #127  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
You may well be right, but I struggle to see the argument for the second of these (other than possibly an interim measure to test how well it works - surely there's no long term argument for a limit; if it's safe, it's safe and then numbers should be based on demand).

As I said above, point 3 for me will be a return to stronger enforcement on no persistent standing in other areas.
I suppose the argument would be that sitting is safer than standing, in line with the Taylor Report, so to cover that aspect I believe limits will be imposed.

I also agree that there will be greater emphasis on persistent standing in seated areas.

If rail seats are introduced and the seats are locked up I'm going to miss my 15 minute sit-down at half-time to read my programme.
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  #128  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:33 AM
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If rail seats are introduced and the seats are locked up I'm going to miss my 15 minute sit-down at half-time to read my programme.
I agree with this Even at away matches where I've stood for the whole 90 minutes, I'd normally have a sit down pre-match and during half time.
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  #129  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:41 AM
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I don’t really understand the benefits of rail seating or why people are excited at the prospect. Is it just that someone can ‘legally’ stand up and watch the match?
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  #130  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:44 AM
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I don’t really understand the benefits of rail seating or why people are excited at the prospect. Is it just that someone can ‘legally’ stand up and watch the match?
Yes, I think so; and a clear indication that it's expected to be a standing area. But like you, I'm not sure what the excitement is at this point - what matters is when safe standing is approved.
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  #131  
Old 21-11-2018, 12:03 PM
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I don’t really understand the benefits of rail seating or why people are excited at the prospect. Is it just that someone can ‘legally’ stand up and watch the match?
I think for some it was the prospect that we could have a greater ratio than 1:1 and you could stand where you wanted like some away games.
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  #132  
Old 21-11-2018, 12:13 PM
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I think the main drivers for this are:

- standing would be completely legal and official - nobody there can be hassled to sit down by stewards or fellow fans

- the hope that noisy singers would congregate together in safe standing areas and bring back top quality atmosphere which has been missing from many grounds since 'all seaters'

- for sitters, the hope that standing is then properly clamped down upon by stewards in seating areas so that they can buy tickets for seats in the knowledge they won't be like a jack in the box, or worse, have to stand all game
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  #133  
Old 21-11-2018, 05:37 PM
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Would love to know how many would want to move to a rail seating area from all over the stadium, enough for the whole lower do we reckon?
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  #134  
Old 21-11-2018, 05:47 PM
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The survey on page 1 suggests approximately three quarters of fans in the lower tier would want to be in rail seats in the lower tier. With regard to the quarter who don't, there are more than enough fans in other stands who would want to move to the lower tier if there were rail seats - two thirds of fans in other stands who voted indicated they would like to move to lower tier rail seating given the option

Even if you say the poll is unrepresentative, and water down the results, then 50% of current lower tier incumbents wanting to stand is not an unreasonable estimate, and therefore you'd only need 2500 others around the rest of the ground (a small percentage of the rest of the ground) and that would be enough to fill a whole lower tier of rail seats
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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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  #135  
Old 21-11-2018, 07:52 PM
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Do you really think the club would fork out this massive expense when it works perfectly well as it is without having to spend a penny.

Unless a new stand is going to be built I do not see the club going out of its way to make rail seating a reality.
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  #136  
Old 21-11-2018, 08:04 PM
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Depends if the HF resume their 'mosh pit' style celebrations I guess - ultimately it makes things safer for everyone, so the club will need to weigh up the risks when it becomes an option
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  #137  
Old 21-11-2018, 08:08 PM
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Depends if the HF resume their 'mosh pit' style celebrations I guess - ultimately it makes things safer for everyone, so the club will need to weigh up the risks when it becomes an option
Never known any safety concerns regarding seating since the Holmesdale was built. In reality the club won't spend a fortune on rail seating just because the HF celebrate in a certain way. Would be far easier and cost effective to just ban the individual culprits.
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  #138  
Old 21-11-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Archiebald Leitch View Post
I don’t really understand the benefits of rail seating or why people are excited at the prospect. Is it just that someone can ‘legally’ stand up and watch the match?
Admittedly it doesn't seem like much but the whole principle that it is "illegal" to stand is akin to state control and a restriction on your freedom. In a day and age when fans have so little say or control over the game, this is one ray of light towards fans taking back some of that freedom.

Maybe that's a bit melodramatic but if you look at the governments initial, archaic response to the safe standing idea, then how they backtracked when they realised the extent of the feeling about it you can see how fans views have generally been ignored.

The German fans decided to take control of their game years ago and the atmosphere and overall match day experience gas benefitted greatly from it, whereas here our game has just become ever increasingly sanitised and dull.

Dorking has listed the actual benefits but there's a principal involved as well.

My hope is that fans in this country get themselves more organised so they can take some control of how the game is run, and not just be some toy for rich billionaires.
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  #139  
Old 21-11-2018, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CPFC.1990 View Post
Do you really think the club would fork out this massive expense when it works perfectly well as it is without having to spend a penny.

Unless a new stand is going to be built I do not see the club going out of its way to make rail seating a reality.
If safe standing is allowed but clubs don't install them, whilst still allowing standing, then chances are they will get in trouble.

One of the best things to come from this idea is it will ensure there a sections where people can stand and those where they can sit. There will a choice.
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Old 21-11-2018, 08:16 PM
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