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  #2321  
Old 23-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
No, it really wasn't. And if you look at the evidence, you will see that it is a myth that grammar schools increase social mobility.
We've had several grammar educated PM's, let me know when a Comprehensive boy makes it.
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  #2322  
Old 23-08-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Every free society chooses what you can and cant spend your money on. The fact that you are either too stupid or too stubborn to acknowledge this makes whatever you say irrelevant.

Given that every free society places limits on what you can spend your money on then it's up to that society to determine what limits it wants.

If you want to argue the merits of private schools either in terms of in addressing inequality or in the quality of the education it provides by all means go ahead.
Public schools aren't about equality they are about getting the best education, just ask the Labour front bench.
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  #2323  
Old 23-08-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by eagleborn View Post
Because the people involved and making those statements are unable to explain HOW there can possibly be Brexit without a hard border. You really do just gobble up shit from politicians don't you.
There is nothing to say we have to have a hard border, the WTO haven't said it and if the EU want one its up to the Irish and I can't see that happening either.
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  #2324  
Old 23-08-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
How do you know it would be spent on that and not going into the general pot. You're relating things that are unrelated.
Comprehension isn't your strong point is it
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  #2325  
Old 23-08-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
No, it really wasn't. And if you look at the evidence, you will see that it is a myth that grammar schools increase social mobility.
I think they do when you compensate for the social class of the pupil. I suspect you'll find that lower and middle working class kids have a trend towards increased social mobility as a result of grammer school. Where as upper working class and lower and middle class kids maintain their social status.

Its important to remember that those who generally 'get into grammar' schools were predominately upper working class and lower middle class kids.

So the degree to which they'd be upwardly mobile should be classed against Private schools or kids from the same social background in state schools. Social mobility is less of a significant thing from the middle classes...
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  #2326  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
There is nothing to say we have to have a hard border, the WTO haven't said it and if the EU want one its up to the Irish and I can't see that happening either.
Pretty sure the point of Brexit was 'taking control of our borders' and being tough on illegal immigation. we've got one border, and now the view is that we're not going have any border checks at the border.

How would we deal with goods crossing from Ireland into NI that have customs duty, require bonded storage, require tariffs, legislative process over control, let alone prevent illegal immigration and drug from the EU (and America funny enough). Allegedly Ireland is a popular route for the transportation of heroin and cocaine into the UK, via the NI border).

Even if we trade under WTO rules, we have to deal with tariffs, import charges and levies etc and that requires a border.

On both sides.
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  #2327  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Public schools aren't about equality they are about getting the best education, just ask the Labour front bench.
The greatest leveller of inequality in the world, is a good education.

Its suprising how many of the icons of the end of Imperial Rule had top class British Education
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  #2328  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Pretty sure the point of Brexit was 'taking control of our borders' and being tough on illegal immigation. we've got one border, and now the view is that we're not going have any border checks at the border.

How would we deal with goods crossing from Ireland into NI that have customs duty, require bonded storage, require tariffs, legislative process over control, let alone prevent illegal immigration and drug from the EU (and America funny enough). Allegedly Ireland is a popular route for the transportation of heroin and cocaine into the UK, via the NI border).

Even if we trade under WTO rules, we have to deal with tariffs, import charges and levies etc and that requires a border.

On both sides.
No, there is nothing in WTO rules that say we have to have a hard border on either side. All those things could be done away from the border.

Top tip: Stop reading the Guardian.
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  #2329  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The greatest leveller of inequality in the world, is a good education.

Its suprising how many of the icons of the end of Imperial Rule had top class British Education
They didn't send them there for equality but for education.
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  #2330  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
No, there is nothing in WTO rules that say we have to have a hard border on either side. All those things could be done away from the border.

Top tip: Stop reading the Guardian.
Oh, brexit meant giving up control of our borders!
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  #2331  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:39 PM
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Actually there was a piece in the Economist a couple of years ago looking at equality which was quite surprising. It said that nearly every government for the past century in the UK had supported mixed neighbourhoods but there wasn't a shred of evidence that they reduced inequality. In fact what little evidence there was pointed in the opposite direction. Working class boys had better outcomes when they lived in areas with families of similar wealth.

Last edited by Nth Kent Eagle; 23-08-2019 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Worded it badly
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  #2332  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Oh, brexit meant giving up control of our borders!
We don't control them now if you mean illegals, even being on an island. I think I said about 3000 pages ago we'd end up with a laissez-faire system which seem to be where we are going. As for illegals its really a question of what you do with them when you find them.
The only way out on NI is via plane or ferry for which you have to identify yourself. A border for illegals if you like.
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  #2333  
Old 23-08-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
We don't control them now if you mean illegals, even being on an island. I think I said about 3000 pages ago we'd end up with a laissez-faire system which seem to be where we are going. As for illegals its really a question of what you do with them when you find them.
The only way out on NI is via plane or ferry for which you have to identify yourself. A border for illegals if you like.
You only have to prove that you are the person on the ticket. I'm not sure that you even have to do that for the ferry.

OK so brexiteers aren't getting what they've been promised. Add it to the list.
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  #2334  
Old 23-08-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
There is nothing to say we have to have a hard border, the WTO haven't said it and if the EU want one its up to the Irish and I can't see that happening either.
Oh dear.

The WTO require controls. Whether or not they specify what those controls must be is wholly immaterial. Get a grip.
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  #2335  
Old 23-08-2019, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Ofcourse the other reason teachers leave the profession is the appalling behaviour towards them from some pupils and their parents, but that’s a whole other thread.
Actually, I think it is extremely relevant to the discussion about state/private education. I think it's safe to assume that 'problem families' are a far greater issue at state schools than private. This is not to say that no parents or children in the private sector are troubled in any way, but it's fair to assume that if parents take the great expense to educate their children privately, they are very likely to support the ethos of good education and raise their offspring accordingly.

But for the state sector... a few years ago I would've said that there are plenty of families where the only book in the house is the Argos catalogue - but these days it's not even that! My mother is a volunteer reading partner at my nieces' primary school, and there are 11-year-olds with the reading age of a 7-year-old in large part because they've had no support or encouragement from their parents over the years. It's not something they place value on. And if education is not supported at home it's going to be much harder for the child to succeed at school.

And that's not even talking about genuine bad behaviour from kids with emotional or other problems.
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  #2336  
Old 23-08-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Oh dear.

The WTO require controls. Whether or not they specify what those controls must be is wholly immaterial. Get a grip.
They don't they react to complaints. Don't get ahead of the situation. Complaints take years anyway and by that time it should be possible to check legal goods away from the border.
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  #2337  
Old 23-08-2019, 07:02 PM
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It didn't affect anyone except those that owned their place when it was brought in. If they hadn't been sold they would still be in a council houses. No one became homeless because it.
You're making a popular but nonsensical argument, I appreciate its part of the popular left wing narrative but it just doesn't add up.
As usual skint has no argument so he accuses others of his own error.
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  #2338  
Old 23-08-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Why is there such a remainer obsession with a hard border when everyone involved has said there won't be.
why do brexshitters have such an obsession with the backstop...
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  #2339  
Old 23-08-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
We've had several grammar educated PM's, let me know when a Comprehensive boy makes it.
why not admit you were chatting shit again.
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  #2340  
Old 23-08-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
No, there is nothing in WTO rules that say we have to have a hard border on either side. All those things could be done away from the border.

Top tip: Stop reading the Guardian.
And start getting your info from the Daily Mail comments section like our friend Skint.
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