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  #1  
Old 08-05-2015, 10:04 AM
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European Union referendum thread (23 June 2016)

Lets 'ave it !




(although I suspect I will be on the losing side but c'est la vie, its all about the journey !)
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2015, 10:07 AM
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Is just a distraction that the country does not need nor most people actually want.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:08 AM
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I would like to see all parties agree to set up a neutral body to model various potential outcomes of either leaving or staying in and then agree to accept those findings instead of exchanging lies and misinformation. We should treat this as an opportunity to educate ourselves with an open mind. No chance of course.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Is just a distraction that the country does not need nor most people actually want.

It is irrelevant. Bizarrely enough I suspect Cameron thought he might be able to wrangle out of it by some 'deal' he would have needed to do with the Lib Dems but now ? No. It has to happen, just to appease his own side. It might be the only (major) downside to what has happened in the last 24 hours for him.

Although I suspect the vote will go with those wanting to remain in.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:14 AM
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I dont think he will be able to wriggle out of it this time.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:15 AM
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I dont think he will be able to wriggle out of it this time.

The only possible way is if he claims that he cannot offer a 'reformed' deal but even then I suspect that ship has long passed. He has to see through the pledge now.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
It is irrelevant. Bizarrely enough I suspect Cameron thought he might be able to wrangle out of it by some 'deal' he would have needed to do with the Lib Dems but now ? No. It has to happen, just to appease his own side. It might be the only (major) downside to what has happened in the last 24 hours for him.

Although I suspect the vote will go with those wanting to remain in.
It has to happen now as he has promised it, but the need for it is not an irrelevance. Millions of pounds will now be wasted in what I predict to be a farcical campaign.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:19 AM
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:22 AM
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Although I suspect the vote will go with those wanting to remain in.
I am still an open book on this Mat so tell me why it will be better for the UK to get out .
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
It has to happen now as he has promised it, but the need for it is not an irrelevance. Millions of pounds will now be wasted in what I predict to be a farcical campaign.
Maybe. But that's democracy for you. And, ironically, you soc.libs will be able to rely on all those big bad corporate interests to fund your campaign to stay in the EU because that is what they want. So get used to sharing a bed with the very people you all claim to despise so much.

Those of us who want us to the leave the EU are the 'little' people on this one. The Multinationals will be throwing everything they can at us. Such is life.
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2015, 10:24 AM
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It is irrelevant. ...
Not really. The uncertainty could cost business investment totalling many billions. Who knows? Then in the event of a withdrawal (which I think is entirely possible as a result), how could that even be managed? How do you negotiate new deals with a pissed off bloc of countries. Its a mess.

The slimmest of majorities will be just that when the right wing of the Tories start beating their drums. Interesting times for Cameron.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM
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I am still an open book on this Mat so tell me why it will be better for the UK to get out .
It is quite simple really. A sovereign nation state should be able to decide who or who does not cross its borders. Along with having its national assembly/congress/what ever as the final arbiters of what laws it does or does not pass.

It is about whether you want the UK to be a sovereign state or as part of wider, federalised, body.

However if we do vote to remain in the EU then lets not piss about. Lets get a time table for joining the Euro, lets sign up to the 'Schengen Agreement' and lets get into the heart of the EU. The EU is already, effectively, a two tier body and if we are to remain in in then we need to be at the centre where our voice can be truly heard. Our economy is second only to Germany and that needs to be reflected if we are to remain in the EU.

We are either British or European. We cannot be both. And we need this referendum to make that decision.

So its simple. Westminster or Brussels. One or the other as the primary point from which our legislation is made.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:32 AM
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None of the parties want out of Europe. Even if it goes ahead, it'll be like the Scottish independence vote without the yes campaign. And if there were any danger of the public seeing through the political and business bias, the results would be fiddled.

There's more chance of Farage being the next PM than of us leaving the EU, referendum or no referendum.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:35 AM
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
It is quite simple really. A sovereign nation state should be able to decide who or who does not cross its borders. Along with having its national assembly/congress/what ever as the final arbiters of what laws it does or does not pass.

It is about whether you want the UK to be a sovereign state or as part of wider, federalised, body.

However if we do vote to remain in the EU then lets not piss about. Lets get a time table for joining the Euro, lets sign up to the 'Schengen Agreement' and lets get into the heart of the EU. The EU is already, effectively, a two tier body and if we are to remain in in then we need to be at the centre where our voice can be truly heard. Our economy is second only to Germany and that needs to be reflected if we are to remain in the EU.

We are either British or European. We cannot be both. And we need this referendum to make that decision.

So its simple. Westminster or Brussels. One or the other as the primary point from which our legislation is made.
Fair enough (though you can be both British and European), but can we afford to break away?
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:52 AM
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Fair enough (though you can be both British and European), but can we afford to break away?

So money should be at the heart of every political decision ? We are a major global economy. The Germans still want to sell us their cars and we are a net importer from the EU. They will not want to get into a pissing war with us over trade, no matter how much the scare mongers want to convince you they would.

No, the issue is about national sovereignty. Westminster or Brussels. The choice is really that simple.

Also this. For those of you who bang on, with a lot of justification, about how powerful corporate bodies are then remember that they want you to stay in the EU. The multi-nationals love the EU. So a vote to stay in is a vote for them as well.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:54 AM
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The whole EU thing is fascinating.

Its a collection of tribes, then states who have been fighting each other for the last millennium. Why is everyone going to agree now?

The EU cannot be a superstate for this reason but yet its government is the most bureaucratic thing in existence. To pass any legislation requires three bodies (council, parliament and the commission) to agree with each other. Getting three lots of 27 to agree just ain't gonna happen as national interests will inevitably prevail. So nothing gets done and it costs a stupid amount of money operate.

It was originally a trade union and for that its brilliant. However where we appear to be now is an unhappy compromise between trade agreement and half-arsed union. It won't work properly this side of full union including currency and tax union. That just isn't going to happen. What we have at present is a political compromise which ignores economic and national sense.

So it sure as hell needs reform. If for nothing else to save the billions wasted on the bureaucratic infrastructure. However as a trading block it is a good thing. But what is the kick up the arse necessary to institute this reform? Greece isn't so maybe a UK in/out referendum might.

It's an interesting game of chicken because the trading block alone means we'd be fools to leave it. Our economy simply isn't strong enough to cope.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:56 AM
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The whole open border policy is massive. If we could tighten it up, the EU wouldn’t even be an issue. And was one of UKIP’s major flaws. Driving in Europe on all those nice roads in France and Spain is a dream. All paid for by the EU. It’s money distribution within is ridiculous – although I don’t have stats figures to prove this.

But literally – the EU is a massive plus for businesses. It’s workable. We would be poorer without it. The irony of SNP wanting to be part of the EU but not of the United Kingdom, strips bare what their agenda is all about. It should be about the strength of unity, but ultimately about the anti-English nature of the scots. I’m glad Scots feel like they are now represented, but their throbbing heart beat is based on negativity.

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Old 08-05-2015, 10:57 AM
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It's an interesting game of chicken because the trading block alone means we'd be fools to leave it. Our economy simply isn't strong enough to cope.

Why ? We import more from the EU than we export. The EU needs us, financially, more than we need it.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:03 AM
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Why ? We import more from the EU than we export. The EU needs us, financially, more than we need it.
Must spread etc.
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