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  #141  
Old 20-11-2016, 11:17 PM
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Well found indeed, Dorking Eagle. The author is my uncle and the book has taken four years to research and write.

You are absolutely right, it is a very small print run. The shop currently has just fifty copies, and there's not many more than that available.

It can only be bought directly in the shop at the moment, so if you want to grab a copy for Christmas, pop into the club-shop in person as soon as you can, but be quick!

My uncle has asked the shop to keep one copy unwrapped at all times for shoppers to have a look inside before buying, so don't be afraid to ask them to unwrap a copy if needed.
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  #142  
Old 20-11-2016, 11:20 PM
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Well found indeed, Dorking Eagle. The author is my uncle and the book has taken four years to research and write.

You are absolutely right, it is a very small print run. The shop currently has just fifty copies, and there's not many more than that available.

It can only be bought directly in the shop at the moment, so if you want to grab a copy for Christmas, pop into the club-shop in person as soon as you can, but be quick!

My uncle has asked the shop to keep one copy unwrapped at all times for shoppers to have a look inside before buying, so don't be afraid to ask them to unwrap a copy if needed.
Thanks for the info, must be an extremely short print run!
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  #143  
Old 21-11-2016, 06:41 PM
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My uncle has asked the shop to keep one copy unwrapped at all times for shoppers to have a look inside before buying, so don't be afraid to ask them to unwrap a copy if needed.
They are keeping the copies under wraps for now. I took the chance of buying a copy although I do feel it is probably double the price it should be at Fifty quid.

Having spent many hours myself at Croydon Library going through archives of local papers, I can appreciate the painstaking hours that must have gone into researching the book, although there are nearly 400 pages, in reality it is chiefly made up of illustrations and reproductions of newspaper clippings regarding the subject in hand and the author's notes giving the details behind the cuttings and images.

Possibly not the mighty read the book looks to be under wraps?

I don't want to put anyone off getting it, although I would exercise a little caution, having not read it through yet, that I have not seen much that I was not previously aware of (so far!) in the general history of the 1861 CPFC, although some of the background work done by the Author, Steve Martyniuk, sheds some new light on the reasons behind the eventual demise of the club, circa 1876, in the light of economic problems facing the running of the Palace building and the public attractions in the grounds, where CPFC 1861 played their home fixtures.

If you have seen this thread in Memory Lane on the BBS:

To view the link you have to Register or Login

you will get a flavour of what is going on in the book (I wonder if 'plumey' who started the thread in Memory Lane and the Author of this book know eachother?).

I would congratulate Steve Martyniuk on his efforts, it's well put together and will be a very welcome Christmas or Birthday present for any Palace fan to add to the collection.

At this stage, without a full read through, I can't say it is the definitive story and I could add a little more information right here in this post.

The date given in the book points at the Crystal Palace Cricket Club staring up in the Summer of 1857.

As you can see from my earlier post, 'plumey' managed to upload a cutting from September 1853.

I would have to suggest that is a fairly important oversight I have seen in the brief look I have had thus far, I can also cross-reference at least one name from that 1853 newspaper clip on this thread with the cuttings reproduced about the purported start of the Crystal Palace Club in 1857, so I would say there are going to be some disputed theories here before we have really got into things properly.


To be fair to the Author, there is obviously plenty of insight into the cause and effect of the various financial and administrative decisions made by the Crystal Palace Company, that obviously helped to shape the existence and then decline of the 1861 CPFC as an amateur team and then birth of the professional CPFC in 1905, so there, if you want an underlying theme of the book, is the connection between the old CPFC and the current one, through the Crystal Palace Company, that were chiefly concerned in making an operational profit of the Palace and grounds.
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Last edited by LONDONMAN; 21-11-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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  #144  
Old 22-11-2016, 02:00 PM
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Having read further today, I can now say that Steve Matyniuk has managed to lift the lid on a number of personalties that were instrumental in the running of the CPFC 1861 and also the F.A. as one of the founding clubs in the pioneering days of the game, so there has been an extensive look at some people pivotal in the progress of not just the early Palace club, but they way the football as an organized sport was evolving and the various allegiances and also arguments that were in issue in the early days of the sport.

The book is presented in quite a modern and uninformal style, so if you were expecting a wheighty tome to rival War and Peace and written in the style of an Oxford History professor, have no fear, it is very easy to follow and dip in and out of.

I hope I did not do the author an injustice in my previous post by saying that there was nothing new I had seen in the general history of CPFC 1861, possibly a bit unfair because he has gone further than any research I have seen so far on some of the key people and their part in the story of the club, with some extensive detail on the locations involved in the story too.

Natives of Norwood, Thornton Heath, Croydon, Streatham and Brixton will possibly be fascinated by the descriptions and images that highlight their involvement in the early days of the club.

I was a bit skeptical at first glance, but it's a very decent bit of work that I'm sure most people will be more than satisfied with.
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  #145  
Old 03-12-2016, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for the review Londonman.

I'm the author of the Origin of Crystal Palace FC.

I have included a quote from your review on the web page for the book which links to the club shop.

Stephen Browett has read the book; here's his analysis:

"Amazing research has gone into this book. I never realised the involvement of Crystal Palace in the creation of the game of football as we know it. Really fascinating read." - Stephen Browett

Steve Martyniuk
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  #146  
Old 03-12-2016, 02:00 PM
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So QPR have not only stolen our managers and players in the past, but also our kit!
That's OK, we paid them back by pinching their two best players, Mutch and McCarthy.
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  #147  
Old 03-12-2016, 07:55 PM
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  #148  
Old 26-12-2016, 07:26 AM
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Couldn't let my first impressions pass without comment! What a smashing book. Spent over an hour dipping in here and there and it really is a great effort. Love the style of it - a paragraph or two, then the historical excerpt, photo, diagram or clipping. It makes you the reader feel like you are the one finding the original information and piecing it together, and then the text explains, makes the connections and takes you on the journey of discovery.

A really unusual way of doing a book, however thoroughly enjoyable and enlightening. Any fan with a deep interest to learn all they can about Palace would enjoy this book, it is one for the 'thinkers' and curious amongst us, and we are very lucky that this body of work was undertaken. I have a couple of dozen books about the history of the club but this really breaks new ground for me. I cannot wait to start at page 1 now and slowly soak up every fact, titbit and piece of research. What a treasure!
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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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  #149  
Old 05-01-2017, 09:20 PM
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Couldn't let my first impressions pass without comment! What a smashing book. Spent over an hour dipping in here and there and it really is a great effort. Love the style of it - a paragraph or two, then the historical excerpt, photo, diagram or clipping. It makes you the reader feel like you are the one finding the original information and piecing it together, and then the text explains, makes the connections and takes you on the journey of discovery.

A really unusual way of doing a book, however thoroughly enjoyable and enlightening. Any fan with a deep interest to learn all they can about Palace would enjoy this book, it is one for the 'thinkers' and curious amongst us, and we are very lucky that this body of work was undertaken. I have a couple of dozen books about the history of the club but this really breaks new ground for me. I cannot wait to start at page 1 now and slowly soak up every fact, titbit and piece of research. What a treasure!
Thank you so much for that review, Dorking Eagle. I have added it to the web page for the book.

Steve Martyniuk (Author)
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  #150  
Old 26-01-2017, 08:50 PM
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Currently got as far as p210. Absolutely stunning book, the level of research is quite ridiculous. Also so easy to read and follow the 'story'. Hats off to you.
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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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  #151  
Old 03-02-2017, 11:13 PM
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Finished this book. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and have been really ploughing through it for several hours a day all this week. Brilliantly researched, no stone is unturned, and it doubles up with chronicling the development of the game as well as the integral part that 'Crystal Palace' had in almost every aspect of footballs 'invention' in its earliest days.

This book is essentially the DNA of Crystal Palace, and I would recommend it to any deep thinker who is in love with learning all they can about the history (and mainly pre-history) of CPFC. I have so much more understanding than I had before, and you can really see how the research for this book took so long. Bring on more!!
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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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  #152  
Old 17-12-2018, 11:35 AM
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Some quite bold claims being made in a new book:



As you will probably know Palace’s spiritual and ancestral home was the Crystal Palace at Sydenham. An amateur Crystal Palace Football Club was formed there in 1861 and the current professional team was formed there in 1905. The author Peter Manning has developed a deep interest in the football club’s time at Sydenham, both amateur and professional, and spent the past four years researching and writing a book which has now been published. Palace at the Palace – A History of The Crystal Palace & Its Football Club 1851-1915.

The book draws on completely new sources of information. Over the past five years or so the British Library has digitised over 25 million pages of its Victorian and Edwardian newspaper collection and a forensic examination of this collection reveals a very new and different history for both the amateur and professional clubs than the Palace history books have recorded to date.

The Crystal Palace amateur football club emerged from the Crystal Palace Cricket Club in 1861 and its members had hitherto unknown but provable links with the Founding Fathers of the Football Association and a much more integral role in the founding of soccer than has been recognised before. There were four core football clubs at the heart of founding the F.A. and then keeping it going in its early fragile years. Crystal Palace was one of those four clubs and the only one surviving today. Drawing on nearly 1,000 references from contemporary newspapers and archives of the time, Peters book tells the story through the eyes of people who were there.

Making the statement that Crystal Palace is the only survivor of the four key founding clubs pre-supposes that there was a link between the amateur Crystal Palace club and today’s professional club, a fact which, until now, has always been held not to be the case. However, through examination of contemporary newspapers, previously undiscovered reports by those directly involved and the archives of the Crystal Palace Company a strong case can be built up to show that the amateur and professional clubs can be connected.

Along with the first ever complete history of the Crystal Palace Company, the professional club’s original parent, the new analysis of the amateur and early professional club’s histories is told in the book and the case made for linking the two. If accepted, it gives today’s club a completely unique place in football history; from its previously unrecorded history as one of the four key clubs that founded the F.A. to being able to claim to be the oldest professional league club in world football today (displacing Notts County, founded in November 1862).[/

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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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  #153  
Old 17-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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Who does it need to be accepted by? Send a copy of the book to Gareth for Christmas maybe!!

Let's get this done and finally connect the pioneers to the current incarnation of the club.

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  #154  
Old 17-12-2018, 12:21 PM
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Some quite bold claims being made in a new book:



As you will probably know Palace’s spiritual and ancestral home was the Crystal Palace at Sydenham. An amateur Crystal Palace Football Club was formed there in 1861 and the current professional team was formed there in 1905. The author Peter Manning has developed a deep interest in the football club’s time at Sydenham, both amateur and professional, and spent the past four years researching and writing a book which has now been published. Palace at the Palace – A History of The Crystal Palace & Its Football Club 1851-1915.

The book draws on completely new sources of information. Over the past five years or so the British Library has digitised over 25 million pages of its Victorian and Edwardian newspaper collection and a forensic examination of this collection reveals a very new and different history for both the amateur and professional clubs than the Palace history books have recorded to date.

The Crystal Palace amateur football club emerged from the Crystal Palace Cricket Club in 1861 and its members had hitherto unknown but provable links with the Founding Fathers of the Football Association and a much more integral role in the founding of soccer than has been recognised before. There were four core football clubs at the heart of founding the F.A. and then keeping it going in its early fragile years. Crystal Palace was one of those four clubs and the only one surviving today. Drawing on nearly 1,000 references from contemporary newspapers and archives of the time, Peters book tells the story through the eyes of people who were there.

Making the statement that Crystal Palace is the only survivor of the four key founding clubs pre-supposes that there was a link between the amateur Crystal Palace club and today’s professional club, a fact which, until now, has always been held not to be the case. However, through examination of contemporary newspapers, previously undiscovered reports by those directly involved and the archives of the Crystal Palace Company a strong case can be built up to show that the amateur and professional clubs can be connected.

Along with the first ever complete history of the Crystal Palace Company, the professional club’s original parent, the new analysis of the amateur and early professional club’s histories is told in the book and the case made for linking the two. If accepted, it gives today’s club a completely unique place in football history; from its previously unrecorded history as one of the four key clubs that founded the F.A. to being able to claim to be the oldest professional league club in world football today (displacing Notts County, founded in November 1862).[/

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So is it time to change those 1905 collars to 1861 then?
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  #155  
Old 17-12-2018, 01:29 PM
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Am a bit of a historian bore (non-sporting too) but if true then that is MASSIVE. I know most probably not interested in this digital, now, Sky, Champions League era where the past is last week but this could be HUGGGE!

Crystal Palace as a direct descendant basically the only surviving founder of FA and therefore football! Wow.

The link needs to be made though clearly between - what we thought was the former, unrelated - CP football club which (formerly?) used to have little records and the present club. I shall have to buy and read.
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Old 17-12-2018, 02:18 PM
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What about Sheffield FC? They were formed in 1857 and claim to be the oldest football club in the known universe
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  #157  
Old 17-12-2018, 02:21 PM
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I think oldest professional club is the claim
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Old 17-12-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by regal_eagle View Post
Who does it need to be accepted by? Send a copy of the book to Gareth for Christmas maybe!!

Let's get this done and finally connect the pioneers to the current incarnation of the club.

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I'm not sure how such a claim would be recognised, when for 100+ years has long been accepted that the 1905 club were a new and separate entity.

Until recently it was thought that our original colours were claret and blue, when actually the word claret was never found to have been used for decades after the formation of the 1905 club. Apparently our colours were always described as Cardinal and Blue.

Well the claim is on the CPFC official site, even if just on the club shop page, so it's a shot across the bows to Notts County that's for sure!
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"Well, as I said before, we are only 6 points behind 4th from bottom with the prize of an additional £65 million (minimum) if we stay up. So, we'd be bonkers if that wasn't the top priority. Nobody's giving up on staying in this league." CPFC2010, 5-11-2013
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Old 17-12-2018, 03:21 PM
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My second team of cray Wanderers are older ..... But I've always thought we should claim the Old Crystal Palace Legacy as ours!
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Hey how about the club could invent a little plastic card that you could have in your wallet to access games and maybe it could even come in a little wallet of its own, now that would be really convenient .... just a thought !
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Old 17-12-2018, 03:29 PM
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libran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietlibran came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
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Originally Posted by regal_eagle View Post
Who does it need to be accepted by? Send a copy of the book to Gareth for Christmas maybe!!

Let's get this done and finally connect the pioneers to the current incarnation of the club.

UTP!
Let's get this done. Surely the two teams both being extensions of and founded by the CPC means it's the same club just resurrected.
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