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  #41  
Old 24-03-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by foresthillbilly View Post
I am willing to be corrected. I just remember an article about Wayne Rooney 10 years ago, about him setting up an off-shore company, because all Premiership players were doing it.
An accountant will always save you more money than their fees.
Which is why I am sceptical of footballers Tax affairs (Harry Redknapp being another example), particularly when Zaha can own 50 London properties.
Do be in regards to what they do with their money once they receive it from the club and in relation to payments they receive outside of their salary from the club.

As others have said - footballers wages from the club are received via PAYE like any other employee.
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  #42  
Old 24-03-2020, 10:55 AM
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To be fair Simon Jordan is making some really good points about this on Talksport at the moment, mainly asking for the PFA to step up.
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  #43  
Old 24-03-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
The major part missing from your post is fans and clubs. A trade union that is too powerful ends up being counter-productive, as proved many times in the past. It was sickening watching that defender at Portsmouth (i forget his name) on silly money draining them out of any money they had left and letting them die.

Players have most of the power these days and the fans, who effectively pay their wages, have none.
If it was problem for fans then they would vote with their wallet.

Itís a product people want hence why they get paid so much. Either from admissions or TV subscriptions. Itís the going rate their wages, itís sickening that they personally donít do more good with their money, but if people really have an issue we should all watch non league otherwise we prop it.

What other industry has salary fixing? It wouldnít work it would only devalue the premier league. The economic effect would be huge, all our best players would leave, and the worldwide subscriptions would go down as the product wouldbt be as desirable.
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  #44  
Old 24-03-2020, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
If it was problem for fans then they would vote with their wallet.

Itís a product people want hence why they get paid so much. Either from admissions or TV subscriptions. Itís the going rate their wages, itís sickening that they personally donít do more good with their money, but if people really have an issue we should all watch non league otherwise we prop it.

What other industry has salary fixing? It wouldnít work it would only devalue the premier league. The economic effect would be huge, all our best players would leave, and the worldwide subscriptions would go down as the product wouldbt be as desirable.
I agree salary fixing is a bad idea and simply wouldn't work, as proved in rugby.

Re fans, the alternative is for us to get more organised like they did in Germany when they got fed up with the way it was run. The result is German clubs in the main have remained competitive in Europe whilst keeping a stringent control over the player's wages (with one or two possible exceptions).
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  #45  
Old 24-03-2020, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Power View Post
Do be in regards to what they do with their money once they receive it from the club and in relation to payments they receive outside of their salary from the club.

As others have said - footballers wages from the club are received via PAYE like any other employee.
Whatever one thinks of the amounts paid to top footballers, it has to be acknowledged that players' salaries and related benefits such as agents fees (for services to the player) are taxed in full under PAYE with strict enforcement by HMRC.

In many Premier League contracts (and in some other European leagues) a top player's agent negotiates a "net of tax salary" of a guaranteed amount after tax, with the club picking up the tax bill on that salary. That "grossing up" in itself gives rise to a taxable benefit in kind for the player with yet more income tax payable on that benefit in kind (often by the club, with extra tax and so on...)

The player's agent typically receives fees not only for player services (the negotiation of contracts on behalf of the player, etc); but also for club services (essentially keeping the player happy and motivated and aligned with the interests of the club). The fees for player services are often paid by the club on behalf of the player, resulting in an additional benefit in kind and resultant tax on that benefit, often paid by the club, with extra tax and so on....

Those agents fees are in most cases taxed on the agent, who provides those services in the UK.

The income tax rate applicable on these amounts is 45%. Each of the above payments also attract Employers NIC at 13% and/or Employees NIC of 2%. The fees to agents also attract VAT at 20%.

The cumulative effect is for massive amounts to be routinely paid to HMRC.

I have run the numbers in the past based on first hand knowledge. In the two examples I ran,the amount payable to HMRC by the club, the player and the agent collectively was in each case at least equivalent to the player's reported headline earnings.

So, whilst I have no knowledge of his contract, when a player like Zaha is reported to be earning in excess of £100,000 / week you can be reasonably confident that HMRC is receiving approximately the same amount in income tax, NIC and VAT from various quarters.

Different arrangements apply to Image Rights payments (e.g. boot deals, product endorsements for the player; and club kit photocalls, personal appearances, sponsor activity on behalf of the club) where UK tax is not always captured, particularly for foreign players. This is often because HMRC has no entitlement to tax where the Rights derive from overseas contracts or where the exploitation of the Rights takes place overseas - e.g in the Asian market for a player like Son.
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  #46  
Old 26-03-2020, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CPFCalifornia View Post
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The question to be asked is WHY?

Is the money saved going elsewhere...to hospitals, PPE etc..

Are the savings going to regular workers within the franchises or to match day stuff who would otherwise get nothing?

Is the income generated on game day a big % loss to these organisations compared to contract income (TV, advertisers, sponsors)?

What I am looking at here is....

are owners who are really not short of a few bob trying to wriggle out of contractual obligations with players? In theory that can be applied to all industries and workers.

are owners pulling a fast one, and taking advantage of a situation economically? Are they actually going to be a little better off IF, for example, TV money equates to 90%+ of income.

Do players get that money back when games are rearranged and played?

What happens if that particular sport is in off season - no lost match day income?

I think we are dealing with billionaires making a bit of cash out of this crisis or certainly making sure that they don't have to take a hit that regular people do.
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  #47  
Old 26-03-2020, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by grand aigle View Post
You obviously dont know how players are paid, they are not on PAYE like most people, they pay very little tax in comparison to salary!
This chap seems to have disappeared. Perhaps he is spending time on factchecker.com

I'm sure he'll pop back on in a few months with some other half-arsed put down. Well, after he's wiped all that egg off his face.
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  #48  
Old 26-03-2020, 05:09 AM
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If players are on fixed term contracts surely they are paid to a date regardless the same as if they get injured.
I think that it will get interesting if the season runs past June and see what happens to out of contract players..
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  #49  
Old 26-03-2020, 05:26 AM
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New contracts for players clubs wish to keep, and pay as you play take it or leave for players clubs are not bothered about or want to get rid of.

Especially for a club in our legue position. Nothing to play for.

What will be interesting is the length of the transfer window for next season. OR maybe they will not have one to protect those self same out of contract players. But then who would want to keep an out of contract player on their books who didn't agree to a pay cut when asked to do his bit.
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  #50  
Old 26-03-2020, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
It's worldwide tv in general. Obviously at the moment it's a huge issue but when we're back to normal, football finances will go back to how they were a couple of months ago. Certainly for the Premier League.
By the time we are back to normal several players contracts may have expired? By then the financial landscape within sport generally may well have shifted significantly?
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  #51  
Old 26-03-2020, 08:42 AM
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At the top levels (Premier League to Championship), most players that end up as free agents will be guns for hire and probably end up on bigger wages than they were on before this.

I think in the end, and I've thought this for years, transfer fees may erode and we will see more players sign shorter term deals for higher wages. Meyer for example will probably leave us on a free and despite being unimpressice for us, get a wage increase due to the signing club not having to pay a transfer fee. Joe Ledley is another example of someone taking advantage of this - he's played for 6 clubs and I think we were the only team who paid a fee for him, and that was less than a million, as he only had 6 months less on his contract with Celtic. Of course, the risk with this option for players is long term injuries.

I think it would be great if the wages players received weren't so high, but to be honest, I think it is naive to think that the coronavirus situation will change it. I think the only changes you may well see is less professional UK clubs, due to several of the current lower league ones going bankrupt.
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  #52  
Old 26-03-2020, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
At the top levels (Premier League to Championship), most players that end up as free agents will be guns for hire and probably end up on bigger wages than they were on before this.

I think in the end, and I've thought this for years, transfer fees may erode and we will see more players sign shorter term deals for higher wages. Meyer for example will probably leave us on a free and despite being unimpressice for us, get a wage increase due to the signing club not having to pay a transfer fee. Joe Ledley is another example of someone taking advantage of this - he's played for 6 clubs and I think we were the only team who paid a fee for him, and that was less than a million, as he only had 6 months less on his contract with Celtic. Of course, the risk with this option for players is long term injuries.

I think it would be great if the wages players received weren't so high, but to be honest, I think it is naive to think that the coronavirus situation will change it. I think the only changes you may well see is less professional UK clubs, due to several of the current lower league ones going bankrupt.
Surely the current revenue stream from sponsors will take an enormous hit?
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  #53  
Old 26-03-2020, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
At the top levels (Premier League to Championship), most players that end up as free agents will be guns for hire and probably end up on bigger wages than they were on before this.
Not sure if that is going to happen. If anything good comes out of all this we might at last see wages stop going up, for a while a least.
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  #54  
Old 26-03-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
The question to be asked is WHY?

Is the money saved going elsewhere...to hospitals, PPE etc..

Are the savings going to regular workers within the franchises or to match day stuff who would otherwise get nothing?

Is the income generated on game day a big % loss to these organisations compared to contract income (TV, advertisers, sponsors)?

What I am looking at here is....

are owners who are really not short of a few bob trying to wriggle out of contractual obligations with players? In theory that can be applied to all industries and workers.

are owners pulling a fast one, and taking advantage of a situation economically? Are they actually going to be a little better off IF, for example, TV money equates to 90%+ of income.

Do players get that money back when games are rearranged and played?

What happens if that particular sport is in off season - no lost match day income?

I think we are dealing with billionaires making a bit of cash out of this crisis or certainly making sure that they don't have to take a hit that regular people do.
I know when it comes to the rich they are fair game, and sure, a 'billionaire' ain't short of a few quid, but surely, like everyone else, them paying 'millionaires' their earnings aint gonna keep them billionaires for long is it?

This seasons income will soon surpass a normal 12 month period. Any 12 month deals, sponsorship, contracts etc. will all be honoured over 14/15/16 months to get this season finished. If palace end up paying 16 months of expenditure and only recoup 12 months worth of income, we will end up paying the players 33% more for the same 12 month output. Why shouldn't they face what we are all gonna face? In fact, they are probably better prepared to face £2.5k a month than many people are.
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Old 26-03-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Herr Colonpharter View Post
Surely the current revenue stream from sponsors will take an enormous hit?
Maybe for a little while but things will get back to normal quite quickly, and of all the industries out there, top level football is not going to be encountering too many financial problems.
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Old 26-03-2020, 07:48 PM
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Old 26-03-2020, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redandblue View Post
If players are on fixed term contracts surely they are paid to a date regardless the same as if they get injured.
I think that it will get interesting if the season runs past June and see what happens to out of contract players..
Players out of contract in June are actually paid until the end of July. I guess this was set up to protect them in the closed season but youd think this would be fairly straightforward to put in one off extensions for a month or two.
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Old 26-03-2020, 08:14 PM
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No games means people cancel subscriptions, therefore BT, Sky and others lose their revenue. ITV Digital pulled the plug on the money they were contracted to pay Championship clubs for TV rights during Jordans reign.
If that happens a lot of clubs outside the Big 6 are in trouble, the Big 6 will go on to join a Euro Super League they have been after for years.
Times are a changing for many clubs.
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