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  #21  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
My understanding is the payment is made to the employer, not the employee, and is specifically designed to stop companies making redundancies. Furlough your employees rather than make them redundant, on full pay and claim back 80%.
You don't have to make up the 20%
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  #22  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:02 PM
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BringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBringbackShipps came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
I have a sole tradesman refurbing my house at the moment and I will be asking him to suspend the work. I feel awful about it as he is a good guy and I feel some personal responsibility for putting him in to financial difficulty, especially as he is happy to continue with the job. But I have to balance that against my social responsibility living among several elderly folk in the neighbourhood...even if it’s relatively low risk someone is going to suffer.

Hindsight I know but these measures should really have been announced in tandem with a plan for the self-employed, must be people up and down the land in the same predicament as me that are feeling the burden of putting people in to difficulty, and also people wanting to stop working that can’t afford to.
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  #23  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Depends on the business you are in.


Relief is available for the retail, hospitality and/or leisure sector.

How long do you think they can keep that up for? I'd give it circa 8 weeks myself..... I mean I'm miles away from a financial expert, but for xrists sakes get real people.

We are talking total financial meltdown here and people are running around thinking they are going to save the world by destroying the fundamentals.


And I always considered myself a footite or bennite tribune type....blimey.





More faith than me, that's all I can say.
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  #24  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:05 PM
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You don't have to make up the 20%
I know.
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  #25  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:07 PM
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I know.
Was reading from the start down..
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  #26  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
How long do you think they can keep that up for? I'd give it circa 8 weeks myself..... I mean I'm miles away from a financial expert, but for xrists sakes get real people.
.
Good question.


Now work out the cost - not just in benefits - of a few million unemployed.
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  #27  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
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This is an interesting one for the travel industry. The businesses have not been ordered to close, but their customers have effectively been ordered, via the FCO, not to use them, which - in revenue terms - amounts to pretty much the same thing. Will be interesting to see how it develops.
It is a very interesting question more generally too.On the face of it,does it mean that any business which has not specifically been ordered to close is not covered by this.This would mean loads of people thinking they (and/or their employees) are covered against a mass downturn in trade/business won't be...
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  #28  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Good question.


Now work out the cost - not just in benefits - of a few million unemployed.
I cannot comprehend the costs, it's just incredible. On that basis I am pretty sure it won't be as easy as they make it sound.
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  #29  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Good question.


Now work out the cost - not just in benefits - of a few million unemployed.

Zero hours contracts are basically unemployed already.... So that takes a big chunk of those millions. So do what the UK seemingly is best at Zero hour contracts for all during recovery.

Relief equates to zero money obviously.... Problem is time is money more so now than ever before.

I personally cannot envisage the outcome if the developed world is locked down for 6 months. Except for the most crippling devastation that it's ever been through. The economies did run during the last 2 world wars and even the great depression.

So there "has" to be another way. .

Can anyone shed any light on how the world will be in 6months of lockdown.... from a financial viewpoint?
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  #30  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
Zero hours contracts are basically unemployed already.... So that takes a big chunk of those millions.
At most it takes about three quarters of a million.


So no ; not a big chunk.
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  #31  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
Zero hours contracts are basically unemployed already.... So that takes a big chunk of those millions. So do what the UK seemingly is best at Zero hour contracts for all during recovery.

Relief equates to zero money obviously.... Problem is time is money more so now than ever before.

I personally cannot envisage the outcome if the developed world is locked down for 6 months. Except for the most crippling devastation that it's ever been through. The economies did run during the last 2 world wars and even the great depression.

So there "has" to be another way. .

Can anyone shed any light on how the world will be in 6months of lockdown.... from a financial viewpoint?
I doubt it will compare to the second world war. I suspect we'll see a greater shift towards a 'war economy' if the situation continues with long term lockdown - and quite possibly some marshall plan style recovery / stimulus lending where applicable.

The UK economy (and German economy) during WWII were not just 'taken out' through the loss of workers, but in many cases entire cities of infrastructure were bombed flat.

Worse comes to the worse we'll adopt somekind of temporary communist / lefty planned economy built towards recovery - and on the plus side, everyone is kind of in the same economic situation (ie everyone is going to go more or less into recession at the same time).

Probably the worse economic crisis the world ever faced was a result of the black death, granted we don't tend to see that in terms of economy. That killed about 25% of the population - and recovery occured (in fact the most badly hit, actually came out of it better off).

Last edited by dogstar721; 24-03-2020 at 12:49 PM.
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  #32  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
At most it takes about three quarters of a million.


So no ; not a big chunk.

And??? Your actually hiding from the big question.... That relief money doesn't exist, it's air, empty promise, fantasy, fairyland stuff. It equates to financial f...ing ruin for generations, rather than keeping this problem in this generation..

Well that's what I see, unless someone can explain why it's not.
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  #33  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:48 PM
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A bit more information from an MD support and peer mentoring group:

Quote:
In order to get agreement to ‘furlough’ an employee we are not required to carry out a 3 stage consultation process. We simply need to ask the employee whether they would agree to it. If they say ‘yes’, that’s it done, but we do still need to confirm it with them in writing. I have a Furlough Agreement and if you would like to receive a copy, please just ping me an email and I will send it by return.


If you still have redundancies to make, either right now or in the future, you could agree to furlough your employees for now and then carry out a proper 3 stage redundancy consultation with them whilst they are furloughed. If you have 20 or more redundancies to make, this would allow you to consult for the 30 or 45 day statutory period required.


We still don’t know if you should retract dismissals that have already taken place but the feeling from the webinar yesterday was that this is unlikely. I will let you know as soon as this becomes clear.


The furlough arrangement might be applied on a daily, weekly or monthly basis – it is thought that weekly is the most likely. This might allow you to furlough your staff on a rotation basis. For example, if you have 3 people doing the same work but you only have sufficient work for one person, instead of furloughing 2 people and requiring 1 to stay at work, you could rotate the work on a weekly basis between all 3 of them. We will let you know as soon as this has been clarified.


Company directors will equally be entitled to be furloughed but they will only receive 80% of any pay that is paid to them via the PAYE scheme.


Holiday will continue to accrue whilst an employee is furloughed but an employer can require an employee to “take” some of their holiday entitlement during the furloughed period so that they don’t return to work half way through the holiday year with a full years’ holiday entitlement still to take. As normal, however, you would have to give twice as much notice as the duration of holiday you wish them to take.


Although the Government will ultimately reimburse you 80% of the employees’ costs, as a business you need to pay that money to your employees in the meantime. If you will not have sufficient cash reserves to cover this, you can agree with your employees to pay them a lower amount, say 50%, whilst you are waiting for the government funding to come through. This agreement would state that on receipt of funds from the government you will backpay the additional 30% that they are entitled to and pay the full 80% from that point onwards.


If you cannot rotate furlough arrangements and need to select between employees as to who will remain working and who will be furloughed, you do need to use a fair selection process in the same way you would if you were making people redundant.


If an employee has two or more part time jobs, it is feasible that they could be furloughed from one job whilst continuing to perform their other job(s). They cannot, however, carry out any work during the hours that they have been furloughed. That is likely to be fraud.


An amendment to the Coronavirus Bill is going through the system at present to provide support to self-employed people. It is likely to be agreed. It will provide either a) 80% net earnings based on an average of the last 3 years or b) 2,917 pcm, whichever of these two is the lower.
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  #34  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:49 PM
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Thanks, Will. That's very useful.


I confess, the thought of daily furloughs had simply not occurred to me.
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  #35  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I doubt it will compare to the second world war. I suspect we'll see a greater shift towards a 'war economy' if the situation continues with long term lockdown - and quite possibly some marshall plan style recovery / stimulus lending where applicable.

The UK economy (and German economy) during WWII were not just 'taken out' through the loss of workers, but in many cases entire cities of infrastructure were bombed flat.

Worse comes to the worse we'll adopt somekind of temporary communist / lefty planned economy built towards recovery - and on the plus side, everyone is kind of in the same economic situation (ie everyone is going to go more or less into recession at the same time).

Probably the worse economic crisis the world ever faced was a result of the black death, granted we don't tend to see that in terms of economy. That killed about 25% of the population - and recovery occured (in fact the most badly hit, actually came out of it better off).

People earned money during the war, from working for the war effort.. The Americans created their emplre out of it.

This thing is stopping everything and they are giving us a timeline of 6months.... you bet it's worse than the second world war financially at least.
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  #36  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:53 PM
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Furlough is fine enough, but should be only used by companies when all other avenues avoided, why can’t people take it as holiday. ?
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  #37  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:55 PM
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This bit

Quote:
Company directors will equally be entitled to be furloughed but they will only receive 80% of any pay that is paid to them via the PAYE scheme.
is going to be an issue for the company directors of a lot of small limited companies.

And this bit:

Quote:
An amendment to the Coronavirus Bill is going through the system at present to provide support to self-employed people. It is likely to be agreed. It will provide either a) 80% net earnings based on an average of the last 3 years or b) 2,917 pcm, whichever of these two is the lower.
is going to be a pain for all the self employed who like to do work cash in hand and not declare it.
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Old 24-03-2020, 12:57 PM
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Thanks, Will. That's very useful.


I confess, the thought of daily furloughs had simply not occurred to me.
Me neither.

You're welcome. Happy to post any further advice or information I get.
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  #39  
Old 24-03-2020, 12:57 PM
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Oh those poor tax dodgers.
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Old 24-03-2020, 12:58 PM
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Oh those poor tax dodgers.
I've no sympathy, it might teach them to be more honest in the future. I know of some people who probably don't declare over 50% of their income.
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