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  #3081  
Old 20-09-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Gave him the chance when most of our defence was injured and we have no 1st team RB left? He then put the U23 RB in.

Apart from AWB what youngster has he given an opportunity to?
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Obviously there hasn’t been any other youngster with appropriate talent. Though a few have been training with the first team. Barring injuries to them we may well have seen some play like Deher
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  #3082  
Old 20-09-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by palace_burger View Post
The manager who stopped AWB going out in loan so he could train with the first team and speed up his development and gave him the chance when the opportunity came up, sounds like the perfect manager!
Not sure picking out one extreme exception proves the rule in this scenario.

Personally I'm not convinced the current crop of senior academy players are close to PL level but regardless there are a few decent midfielders in Kirby, Dreher, Flanagan & McGregor who have essentially been blocked by our transfer policy of filling the squad with experienced midfielders.

I like Roy but he is stubborn and a "safety first" manager (understandably, as our PL survival is key), therefore it's very difficult for these players to get a chance. The players themselves have actually spoken out about their lack of chances and that they would've liked a loan, so it's clearly not all roses.
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  #3083  
Old 20-09-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Gave him the chance when most of our defence was injured and we have no 1st team RB left? He then put the U23 RB in.

Apart from AWB what youngster has he given an opportunity to?
None of our youngsters (other than AWB who was recognised etc. etc.) have gone on elsewhere to achieve anything suggesting the club has missed some golden chance have they? Our Academy has with the exception of AWB been turning out League 1 or 2 level players. e.g. Keshi, Kwesi, Freddie and far more end up in the National League or lower. Sullay is likely the most encouraging but seems to shine at League 1 but unable so far to hold a starting spot at Championship level. I don't think he ever really looked likely to make PL in his pre-season chances with us.

There aren't any Premier league clubs chucking youngsters in 'just to see' if they might come good and TBH fans/crowds can't seem to cope with us losing points to anyone these days, let alone risk them on this.

I do think the inability of these youngsters to attract Loan offers is a real problem. I know the senior U23 players (maybe with the exception of Woods/Kirby?) were hawked around but TBH having watched all of their streamed matches in full I am not shocked that there weren't a lot of offers. To walk into a League 1 or 2 team even they would have to be bossing U23 matches week in week out and TBH there really isn't anyone doing that. You often see it in opposing teams, where they have someone that no one can handle. We haven't had anyone.

Roy does seem to be working closely with Woods. Think someone (Matt?) mentioned that only Woods and Kirby were to be kept back to work with first team. The others simply didn't attract offers.
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  #3084  
Old 20-09-2019, 01:52 PM
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There was a scene in that sky soap years ago where a 16 year old was given his premier league but within 30 seconds he totally misjudged & mistimed a tackle and ended getting sent off! It was just a silly program but stuck in my mind when people just suggest sticking someone in. It is and always be a massive gamble IMO.
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  #3085  
Old 20-09-2019, 02:03 PM
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On loans, Shaw was making the point at the media event at the academy that it's very difficult for players to actually attract scouts. That can be for a variety of reasons.

A personal observation is that there are 20 PL clubs who all have U23 teams. Let's say they all have squads of 18 players, that's 360 U23s at Premier League clubs alone. You need to have been playing consistently well at U23 level to stand out to EFL scouts. And that's not even factoring in the U23s at Championship clubs and the most exceptional of the U18s.

Edit: to add the fact that there are 72 EFL clubs who are allowed five loanees in each matchday squad. That's, ironically, 360 places. But then you factor in that the whole point of these players going away is ultimately to get game time. Derry was pointing out that the six-month loan is bad because some players will fall out of favour or the loan simply won't work, and then they are stuck at that club stagnating for the remainder of their loan. There are so many variables.

Last edited by SGPS; 20-09-2019 at 02:09 PM.
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  #3086  
Old 20-09-2019, 03:15 PM
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U18s home v Cardiff tomorrow.
11am ko.
Academy training ground in Copers Cope Rd.
Season ticket holders can attend.
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  #3087  
Old 21-09-2019, 05:10 PM
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U18s lead 1 nil at HT, deservedly so via a David Omilabu finish via a Finn Mooney thru ball.
Mooney extended the lead just after HT when he rounded the keeper.
But a young Palace side wilted in 2nd half and eventually lost three two.

U16s beat Cardiff on next pitch. Think it ended 2 nil.
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  #3088  
Old 21-09-2019, 08:42 PM
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Some interesting stuff re. the academy in the Adder this week. Richard Shaw saying Rob Street reminds him of an early Ian Wright as his hunger and desire comes from the fact he was playing Sunday League football not so long ago.

Interesting interview too with new head of coaching, Dean Wilkins, who played a part in Southampton’s hugely successful academy and emulating that model here.
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  #3089  
Old 21-09-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Some interesting stuff re. the academy in the Adder this week. Richard Shaw saying Rob Street reminds him of an early Ian Wright as his hunger and desire comes from the fact he was playing Sunday League football not so long ago.

Interesting interview too with new head of coaching, Dean Wilkins, who played a part in Southampton’s hugely successful academy and emulating that model here.
Was a joint thing between me (The Athletic), the SLP, football Ldn and the Standard. Shaw was responding largely to my questions.

He said that Rob had a great attitude and I asked whether it helped that he had largely missed out on the academy system (joined at 16 from grassroots) then Shaw went on to talk about Ian Wright.

Was a load of other stuff said overall that was quite interesting.

U16s won 4-0, Victor Akinwale hat-trick. Ademola Ola-Adebomi got two assists.

The 16s won 3-0 against Cat 1 Fulham in midweek. About five very good players in the group, several of whom were out injured today.

18s seem to be more a team of hard workers put together. Aidan Steele is one to watch in midfield. Plays as a four but is capable elsewhere in the middle. Lovely composure on the ball, good passer, good awareness.

It was defensively as a unit the 18s failed today. Their main problem is a lack of leadership on the pitch. Nobody to take charge.
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  #3090  
Old 22-09-2019, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGPS View Post
On loans, Shaw was making the point at the media event at the academy that it's very difficult for players to actually attract scouts. That can be for a variety of reasons.

A personal observation is that there are 20 PL clubs who all have U23 teams. Let's say they all have squads of 18 players, that's 360 U23s at Premier League clubs alone. You need to have been playing consistently well at U23 level to stand out to EFL scouts. And that's not even factoring in the U23s at Championship clubs and the most exceptional of the U18s.

Edit: to add the fact that there are 72 EFL clubs who are allowed five loanees in each matchday squad. That's, ironically, 360 places. But then you factor in that the whole point of these players going away is ultimately to get game time. Derry was pointing out that the six-month loan is bad because some players will fall out of favour or the loan simply won't work, and then they are stuck at that club stagnating for the remainder of their loan. There are so many variables.
Should be one month loans for under u23/21s
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  #3091  
Old 22-09-2019, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
Was a joint thing between me (The Athletic), the SLP, football Ldn and the Standard. Shaw was responding largely to my questions.

He said that Rob had a great attitude and I asked whether it helped that he had largely missed out on the academy system (joined at 16 from grassroots) then Shaw went on to talk about Ian Wright.

Was a load of other stuff said overall that was quite interesting.

U16s won 4-0, Victor Akinwale hat-trick. Ademola Ola-Adebomi got two assists.

The 16s won 3-0 against Cat 1 Fulham in midweek. About five very good players in the group, several of whom were out injured today.

18s seem to be more a team of hard workers put together. Aidan Steele is one to watch in midfield. Plays as a four but is capable elsewhere in the middle. Lovely composure on the ball, good passer, good awareness.

It was defensively as a unit the 18s failed today. Their main problem is a lack of leadership on the pitch. Nobody to take charge.
Good stuff Woosie. Out of interest, how do you rate Rob Street? Do you think we could have one in the making there?
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  #3092  
Old 22-09-2019, 07:23 AM
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The need for competitive reserve league grows even bigger. They should really set it up as a premier League reserve league where PL teams play one another 30+ times a year
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Old 22-09-2019, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Good stuff Woosie. Out of interest, how do you rate Rob Street? Do you think we could have one in the making there?
I think Shaw's comment that he "will definitely have a career, at what level I don't know" were quite telling. He's found it difficult to adjust to Under-23 football I think. I thought he was brilliant in the U18s and I like him, but I think it's so tough to break through, especially as a striker.

Mitchell, Pierrick and Kirby are the only ones from the U23s at the moment who I think have a genuine chance. That's not to say they will make it, just that if they get the luck and do well then it could happen for them. Pierrick is the golden boy, they love him. But he needs to cut out external factors and also not ever be played as a striker.

Steele in the 18s is my favourite. First-year scholar, still 16.
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Old 22-09-2019, 09:25 AM
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There was a scene in that sky soap years ago where a 16 year old was given his premier league but within 30 seconds he totally misjudged & mistimed a tackle and ended getting sent off! It was just a silly program but stuck in my mind when people just suggest sticking someone in. It is and always be a massive gamble IMO.
It a difficult one, always harsh chucking a player in a pressure cooker situation.

League cup, I know will rankle with some but a good opportunity to blood a youngster and likewise, once safety assured last game of the season.

I expect following the recent comments by Shaw, Derry and some of the younger players will go out in January.

Playing competitive games up at Hull, gave Shaw an excellent grounding
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Old 22-09-2019, 09:29 AM
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As an aside, when is Mitchell likely to be back?
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Old 23-09-2019, 10:23 PM
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Understand Tavares has been tried at right back in recent games. How's he doing?
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Old 23-09-2019, 10:42 PM
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Not sure picking out one extreme exception proves the rule in this scenario.

Personally I'm not convinced the current crop of senior academy players are close to PL level but regardless there are a few decent midfielders in Kirby, Dreher, Flanagan & McGregor who have essentially been blocked by our transfer policy of filling the squad with experienced midfielders.

I like Roy but he is stubborn and a "safety first" manager (understandably, as our PL survival is key), therefore it's very difficult for these players to get a chance. The players themselves have actually spoken out about their lack of chances and that they would've liked a loan, so it's clearly not all roses.
So what you are saying is our youngsters are not good enough.

You are likely right there are far more Cat 1 academies around to choose over us.

SP has worked hard to secure a location that allows us to achieve cat 1 meaning ultimately our future youngsters have a fighting chance of being good enough.

Harsh to accuse Roy of not playing our youngsters. If they are not deemed good enough and he just simply played them to appease fans like yourself he would be nothing short of negligent!

The one youngster spotted who was good enough was suitably developed and deployed for the first team. This should be congratulated.
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Old 23-09-2019, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
I think Shaw's comment that he "will definitely have a career, at what level I don't know" were quite telling. He's found it difficult to adjust to Under-23 football I think. I thought he was brilliant in the U18s and I like him, but I think it's so tough to break through, especially as a striker.

Mitchell, Pierrick and Kirby are the only ones from the U23s at the moment who I think have a genuine chance. That's not to say they will make it, just that if they get the luck and do well then it could happen for them. Pierrick is the golden boy, they love him. But he needs to cut out external factors and also not ever be played as a striker.

Steele in the 18s is my favourite. First-year scholar, still 16.
I think I posted somewhere that I saw Steele in the match the other week when he came on due to injuries and looked very impressive. As you have said before though it's difficult to judge too much from the U23 matches because the matches are a world away from the lower divisions let alone the Premier. Be interesting to see how he develops physically too but looks a very smart footballer for that age. Got a lot of time on his side right now though.

Re Pierrick, I have seen flashes of something but still don't think I have seen any sort of consistent quality (bear in mind this is from streams) that would justify that reputation. Obviously I know about 2% of what the coaches know about the topic and about the same of the player, but what is his greatest asset? Would think this next 18 months will be huge for him if he is going to make it.

Kirby I think I can see the qualities he can leverage and it's all a matter of how he transitions into adult football and physically. He looks to have the determination and focus to force his way into the game at some level as well as the skills. It's a shame he missed pre-season friendlies.

All long range guesses though.
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Old 29-09-2019, 12:32 PM
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U18s won 7-0 away at Coventry yesterday.

Goalscorers were:

Fionn Mooney, Lion Bello, Cardo Siddik, TQ Addy, Brandon Aveiro, TQ Addy again, John-Kymani Gordon

Mooney now has two goals in two games and has started the last two games for the 18s. He's a 15-year-old midfielder. Best suited to the No10 role but can be used as a wider player so long as he gets the ball. One of those players you love to watch.

He and Jadan Raymond who is also 15 are v good.

The 16s this year are strong. It's hard though because as strong as age groups tend to be it's when they step up that things change. They don't adapt as well as you might have anticipated.

I'll be honest and say that out of the players aged 16-23 only a few stand out.

Steele, Mitchell and Pierrick. The latter of that group is the one Palace are pinning their hopes on.

The problem is that they play Cat 2 against lesser competition, so it's harder for them to then improve as quickly. The 16s won 3-1 against Cat 1 Fulham the other week which tells you how strong they are. An U14 (I think) came off the bench in their game last week - Richard Faakye - and he's been in an England training camp.

Palace need Cat 1
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Old 29-09-2019, 01:08 PM
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U18s won 7-0 away at Coventry yesterday.

Goalscorers were:

Fionn Mooney, Lion Bello, Cardo Siddik, TQ Addy, Brandon Aveiro, TQ Addy again, John-Kymani Gordon

Mooney now has two goals in two games and has started the last two games for the 18s. He's a 15-year-old midfielder. Best suited to the No10 role but can be used as a wider player so long as he gets the ball. One of those players you love to watch.

He and Jadan Raymond who is also 15 are v good.

The 16s this year are strong. It's hard though because as strong as age groups tend to be it's when they step up that things change. They don't adapt as well as you might have anticipated.

I'll be honest and say that out of the players aged 16-23 only a few stand out.

Steele, Mitchell and Pierrick. The latter of that group is the one Palace are pinning their hopes on.

The problem is that they play Cat 2 against lesser competition, so it's harder for them to then improve as quickly. The 16s won 3-1 against Cat 1 Fulham the other week which tells you how strong they are. An U14 (I think) came off the bench in their game last week - Richard Faakye - and he's been in an England training camp.

Palace need Cat 1
I accept that it is not easy but failing to get cat1 is really showing as other teams young players are making the step up while ours seem to be destined for lge 1 or 2 at best. When is the likelihood of cat1 going to happen?
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