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  #141  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:04 PM
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I think people are clearly missing the fact that players need time to adjust and looking at the size of him he’s going to need longer than the average bear.
He hasn’t played in 5 months
He’s very small compared to a lot of players in the league
It’s a new league and a new team
If Roy rushed him in and he gets damaged or worse picks up a long term injury we’d be far worse off.

Give him some time, let him bed in etc.
However I would have given him at least 25 mins yesterday.
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  #142  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I am hoping for great things as much as anyone but this raging certainty that he will transform our play can't be based on what we have seen can it and it's mostly hopeful. Most on here really have very little knowledge of his week in week out game. He has looked tidy, very comfortable and probably quite 'mean' with the ball. Quick thinking and mobile. All very promising but in short cameos (which is fine because of his period out of the game - we don't want him picking up injuries). It feels to me that we need someone who has the intelligence, confidence and ability to get a grip of a game and orchestrate the play around him. I was hoping to see that against Swansea against some weaker opposition but he doesn't look like that sort of player albeit this was a strange sort of match.

I am just a bit concerned (because our track record isn't good of late) that he is being built up into some saviour and give it a few weeks he will be labelled a waster. Can we give this guy some time to show us what he has got in his locker? He obviously has something but give him a break rather than be disappointed that his isn't what he/we/you thought he was.
A 'saviour' would be a bonus. I'd just settle for someone better than Schlupp!
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  #143  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Stavros 69 View Post
I think people are clearly missing the fact that players need time to adjust and looking at the size of him heís going to need longer than the average bear.
He hasnít played in 5 months
Heís very small compared to a lot of players in the league
Itís a new league and a new team
If Roy rushed him in and he gets damaged or worse picks up a long term injury weíd be far worse off.

Give him some time, let him bed in etc.
However I would have given him at least 25 mins yesterday.
Yeah, that's how I see it TBH.
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  #144  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sunshine lucas View Post
A 'saviour' would be a bonus. I'd just settle for someone better than Schlupp!

This is the point. In the limited game time he has had he has looked very good and far more involved than Schlupp who seems to be a passenger every game.

Yesterday he was on the pitch 15 minutes but with pretty much his 1st touch created a chance for Benteke and then later put PVA in on he left side of the area.

Last season he played in a similar position to Cabaye for a team that finished 2nd in the Bundesliga. He should be starting every week for us no question even if he canít last the full 90 yet.
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  #145  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:24 PM
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What is all this shite talk about players unable to play 2 games in a week.
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  #146  
Old 02-09-2018, 12:28 PM
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The guy looks class, he has to start next game.
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  #147  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros 69 View Post
I think people are clearly missing the fact that players need time to adjust and looking at the size of him heís going to need longer than the average bear.
He hasnít played in 5 months
Heís very small compared to a lot of players in the league
Itís a new league and a new team
If Roy rushed him in and he gets damaged or worse picks up a long term injury weíd be far worse off.

Give him some time, let him bed in etc.
However I would have given him at least 25 mins yesterday.
You are clearly missing the fact that he is our best midfielder, that he is taller than among others Iniesta at one end of the spectrum and Billy Bremner at the other, that he is clearly fit, that no player would ever play for a new side were your claim to be true.

Most importantly he is desperately needed.
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  #148  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:29 PM
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I’d settle for a Cabaye replacement, which as a regular Bundesliga watcher, I know he has the potential to be.
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  #149  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:09 PM
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Expecting good things of Max. Made a difference, along with Kouate. Played with purpose.
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  #150  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Iíd settle for a Cabaye replacement, which as a regular Bundesliga watcher, I know he has the potential to be.

So would I cp-rjw! I have never seen Meyer play prior to palace so thatís encouraging to hear.
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  #151  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
You are clearly missing the fact that he is our best midfielder, that he is taller than among others Iniesta at one end of the spectrum and Billy Bremner at the other, that he is clearly fit, that no player would ever play for a new side were your claim to be true.

Most importantly he is desperately needed.
Oh really. Well Iím just glad you have your scouting badge.
The guy has played half an hour of competitive football and a crappy cup game
In 5 months.

Iniesta came through the Barca academy and then didnít move counties and clubs after not playing for a third of a season. Why donít you compare apples with apples

And youíll find most new signings donít get thrown in the first team without a full pre season.
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  #152  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Iíd settle for a Cabaye replacement, which as a regular Bundesliga watcher, I know he has the potential to be.
As you say you have watched him regularly, when you use the word potential, do you mean that he is already at Cabaye's level and therefore can do it at this level now or are you saying he is a youngster that has the potential to develop into a Cabaye like player in the future?
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  #153  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
As you say you have watched him regularly, when you use the word potential, do you mean that he is already at Cabaye's level and therefore can do it at this level now or are you saying he is a youngster that has the potential to develop into a Cabaye like player in the future?
I used ‘potential’ because it’s a new league and country, you never really know how a player will adjust. But last season for Schalke he played a Cabaye esque role very well. Most interceptions and times won possession in the entire Bundesliga I believe, 89ish percent pass accuracy (so like Yohan, he’s accurate and doesn’t give it away). I’d say if anything, Max was better than Cabaye last season, but he did have better teammates at Schalke.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 02-09-2018 at 03:12 PM.
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  #154  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
I used Ďpotentialí because itís a new league and country, you never really know how a player will adjust. But last season for Schalke he played a Cabaye esque role very well. Most interceptions and times won possession in the entire Bundesliga I believe, 89ish percent pass accuracy (so like Yohan, heís accurate and doesnít give it away). Iíd say if anything, Max was better than Cabaye last season, but he did have better teammates at Schalke.
Thanks.
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  #155  
Old 03-09-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I am hoping for great things as much as anyone but this raging certainty that he will transform our play can't be based on what we have seen can it and it's mostly hopeful. Most on here really have very little knowledge of his week in week out game. He has looked tidy, very comfortable and probably quite 'mean' with the ball. Quick thinking and mobile. All very promising but in short cameos (which is fine because of his period out of the game - we don't want him picking up injuries). It feels to me that we need someone who has the intelligence, confidence and ability to get a grip of a game and orchestrate the play around him. I was hoping to see that against Swansea against some weaker opposition but he doesn't look like that sort of player albeit this was a strange sort of match.

I am just a bit concerned (because our track record isn't good of late) that he is being built up into some saviour and give it a few weeks he will be labelled a waster. Can we give this guy some time to show us what he has got in his locker? He obviously has something but give him a break rather than be disappointed that his isn't what he/we/you thought he was.
Either a player has it or he doesn't. This guy has it. I think he can play in a couple of positions. I like him a lot. Others have seen him in the Bundesliga week in week out and rate him. That'll do for me. (Unlike Campagna for example he looks like he has already adjusted th Premier League pace.)

I'll be amazed if he doesn't start the next game.
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  #156  
Old 03-09-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stavros 69 View Post
Heís very small compared to a lot of players in the league.
He's a relative giant compared to Kante, Carzola and Ryan Fraser!
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  #157  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil Oakey View Post
Expecting good things of Max. Made a difference, along with Kouate. Played with purpose.
What did this guy do to get banned? 2 posts must be a record . Guess he must've had previous.

Anyway, can't wait to see Meyer, Kouyate and a rejuvenated Milivojevic starting against Huddersfield.
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  #158  
Old 03-09-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I am hoping for great things as much as anyone but this raging certainty that he will transform our play can't be based on what we have seen can it and it's mostly hopeful. Most on here really have very little knowledge of his week in week out game. He has looked tidy, very comfortable and probably quite 'mean' with the ball. Quick thinking and mobile. All very promising but in short cameos (which is fine because of his period out of the game - we don't want him picking up injuries). It feels to me that we need someone who has the intelligence, confidence and ability to get a grip of a game and orchestrate the play around him. I was hoping to see that against Swansea against some weaker opposition but he doesn't look like that sort of player albeit this was a strange sort of match.
He was an integral part to a team who finished 2nd in the Bundesliga last season (which, given Bayern's dominance is hardly just 'runners up'). It's not like he's come from a poor quality league.

He played a very similar role that Cabaye did for us - mostly sitting in front of the defence, not as a pure holding midfielder, but a guy to intercept loose balls and then to distribute it. imo he's a better player than Cabaye, he has the ability to carry the ball in tight spots which Cabaye didn't have, which is why their manager switched him to defensive midfield in the first place, as his ball control can lure opposition players into failing to press him, freeing up space to get it into forward areas. As opposed to now where we have two midfielders who have neither the dribbling nor passing ability to consistently do much more than passing it sideways and backwards. The worry is that even if he starts, he gets shunted out wide in Schlupp's position, which I think would be a massive waste of him and still leave a Cabaye-shaped hole in midfield.

I'd be surprised if settling in is an issue here, the Bundesliga if anything is a faster-paced league than the Prem and he speaks fluent English already.
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BW_Palace View Post
He was an integral part to a team who finished 2nd in the Bundesliga last season (which, given Bayern's dominance is hardly just 'runners up'). It's not like he's come from a poor quality league.

He played a very similar role that Cabaye did for us - mostly sitting in front of the defence, not as a pure holding midfielder, but a guy to intercept loose balls and then to distribute it. imo he's a better player than Cabaye, he has the ability to carry the ball in tight spots which Cabaye didn't have, which is why their manager switched him to defensive midfield in the first place, as his ball control can lure opposition players into failing to press him, freeing up space to get it into forward areas. As opposed to now where we have two midfielders who have neither the dribbling nor passing ability to consistently do much more than passing it sideways and backwards. The worry is that even if he starts, he gets shunted out wide in Schlupp's position, which I think would be a massive waste of him and still leave a Cabaye-shaped hole in midfield.

I'd be surprised if settling in is an issue here, the Bundesliga if anything is a faster-paced league than the Prem and he speaks fluent English already.
Thanks - again that's helpful. The only slight odd thing in what you say is that you don't typically want your DM dribbling around in front of the CBs because you will inevitably get caught out but maybe that isn't what you meant. Cabaye was always composed back there and so played it how I would expect TBH and so not sure what the uplift is there. But everything is else is really encouraging if it's based on what you have seen.
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
Thanks - again that's helpful. The only slight odd thing in what you say is that you don't typically want your DM dribbling around in front of the CBs because you will inevitably get caught out but maybe that isn't what you meant. Cabaye was always composed back there and so played it how I would expect TBH and so not sure what the uplift is there. But everything is else is really encouraging if it's based on what you have seen.
It sort of is what I meant, he was nicknamed the German Messi for a reason! Zaha seems to do it quite frequently and successfully when we're defending a set piece.

Unfortunately he doesn't have anywhere near the ability or explosiveness that Messi or even Zaha has, so isn't a player to necessarily take-on players and get past them. But he can and was used to draw out players and create space for others last season - he can hold onto the ball for longer and in tighter areas than Cabaye would have been able to, without losing the ball.

One caveat is that he was well protected last season as Schalke played a 352, so 3 at the back and two other CMs. So if he lost the ball he often had cover alongside him and he didn't really have to press or move without the ball as often as he probably will if we persist with 442.
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