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  #31961  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I’m not sure that cutting an interview with Diane Abbott means that the BBC were biased. I don’t get how that is a rational conclusion at all
Yes, and it does only apply to the 2015 cut, but it was asserted back then the reason was bias. We have to judge today whether or not this week's programme had bias. I think it did partially, as for me, it left a lot of unanswered questions that could and should have been put to the participants for clarity and context.
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  #31962  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Surely when 'eaten' on its own you are drinking it, but when taken with other food, as is the norm, then you are 'drinking' it as part of a eating process, so you are actually eating it.
.
And soup?
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  #31963  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
You raise an interesting point : does one eat or drink gravy? Technically speaking it's the latter, but I don't think I have heard the practice described as such.
I think it depends if it comes in its own individual gravy boat or not.
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  #31964  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:35 AM
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Soup with bread, eating

On its own drinking..
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  #31965  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:38 AM
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Being a Labour chap, it does rather put me off, almost beyond the pail.

A stench that's very hard to get rid off.

Do any foresee, they're loss, being a slight liberal gain?
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  #31966  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I’m not sure that cutting an interview with Diane Abbott means that the BBC were biased. I don’t get how that is a rational conclusion at all
Given that she normally totally confuses me anyway, probably did labour a favour if her interview was cut out. However intelligent she may or may not be, she really is awful at communicating the message. Even worse than Theresa May..
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  #31967  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gold76 View Post
Soup with bread, eating

On its own drinking..
Soup with croutons?
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  #31968  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
And soup?
This Fridays BBS debate is back on.

Chunky - Eaten

consommé - Drunk

Minestrone - ? though I lean towards drunk as it does not require the mandible.
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  #31969  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
I watched the Panorama programme for the first time last night, and in the knowledge of many of the comments on here.

As far as Corbyn personally was concerned, there was the implied condemnation over his sharing of platforms in the past with those who are clearly antisemitic. This was reported in the context of Chakrabati's report, where she said that this is not something that should be subject to any kind of investigation.This was balanced by others who have known Corbyn for many years, one a Jewish woman, who stated unequivocally that he was not antisemitic. I personally don't think Corbyn is either, but he has poor political judgement, exemplified by the sharing of platforms in the past with people who clearly are. Then there was the case of his comments on the mural, which he hadn't looked at properly and later retracted his views following criticism.

The problem in the party seemed to start from the time of Corbyn's election as leader back in 2015 and the influx of an additional 150000 new members. The young faces of ex employees in the programme gave quite a few examples of personal abuse by other members. The detail of the context was not explained in most cases. One common theme running through their statements was the use of the word "Zionist" against some of these victims of the abuse. I can't remember the name of the guy who spoke assertively about this point, but he said without any doubt, that the use of this word is now a substitute for "Jew". He did not offer, or was not asked by the interviewer, what evidence he had for this assertion, and so it was seemingly accepted, and set the background for many of the abuse comments that followed.

[I]I came away thinking the same as I always have, and have mentioned on here before, that anti-Zionism is now treated universally as the same as antisemitism. Whereas some of the abuse was not acceptable in any event, for example calling someone a "filthy Zionist", it seemed to me to be much more like a reflection of mindless labelling all Jewish people as pro Israeli government policy supporters, inside or outside the party. It is similar to what happens in social media these days, with people feeling that they have licence to make abusive comment casually, without repercussions. The addition of a huge numbers of left wing and far left wing members, as CR said on this thread earlier, is bound to include a number of this type of person.
The far right and the far left meet together in a circle, and so prejudice and bigotry from both these extremes can express itself in this way.
My conclusion is that sadly, Corbyn is naive and incompetent, and has exacerbated a problem of coping with a sudden influx of people not a suitable fit for traditional Labour. As a consequence, consistency and effectiveness in dealing the issue internally has been missing, and this what happens when leadership is weak and ambiguous, which is Corbyn's apparent trademark these days.

So was the programme good and unbiased? I think the criticism from the Labour ranks has some justification, especially when emails are edited for effect, which we now know at least one crucial one by Milne, was. There was some attempt at balance, but the short notice given to Labour to prepare for it didn't help, and Diane Abbot's hour long interview was completely cut.
I think your point which I have highlighted has some validity,though perhaps also in a different way to you.The mere word 'zionist' has become so demonised and used as a substitute or generalisation for 'jew' 'as to make it a very thin line between legitimate criticism of Israel and its actions and inactions and taking the extra step of demonising a whole ethnic group way beyond what is applied to others in similar situations (ie Turkish people re the Kurds)thus legitimising the current wave of filth and innuendo we have seen spewing out from some minority elements within the party.

JC says he supports a two state solution (one of which would be an Israel).It's party policy.Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland in the middle east. It has as many varieties as socialist does. But some of those who oppose it,treat the word they same way they complain about the word 'socialism' being treated,ie if you are a socialist,you must ergo support the USSR and N Korea.

I'm no zionist;I think it was a bonkers idea.But,I have some sympathy with those who dreamed it up and flocked to it since they were just reacting to the same old same old tropes and prejudices of European christian civilisation.I certainly don't demonise them.The whole Jewish liturgy for 2,000 years was based around a 'return from exile to Zion' so your classic imperialism it ain't.

If a two state solution is legit,then so as a matter of logic is zionism per se. Israel in practice is a very different matter as is the legitimacy of campaigning against the way it is constituted and its many despicable actions..So,a starting point is to think closely and honestly at how out of control the demonisation of anyone who says they are any kind of zionist is,its wider application to anyone in the party complaining of anti semitism, and resultant legitimisation in some quarters of wholesale prejudice against an ethnic group within the party.

That I suspect is the can of worms in the room,which also allows those of an anti semitic conspiracist bent to break cover and claim ideological legitimacy. How to deal with it (and how to deal with it without compromising support for Palestinians) and ongoing weaponisation by both left sand right within the party will need a lot of thinking through.

I've seen it at first hand more than once.I can remember being in Malaysia and calmly being informed by a seemingly rational and intelligent person
that the problem with the world was that there was 'too much zionism'!

In terms of the Panorama programme, your own presentation of the non existent DA 2019 interview as fact shows the need to remain on guard against 'spin' and to remember that Milne engages in spin every bit as much as Campbell did.

.

Last edited by legaleagle2; 12-07-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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  #31970  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:57 AM
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btw the introduction of foreign objects, such as croutons and bread, while consuming soup makes the whole process eating, regardless of the type of soup IMVHO.
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  #31971  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:06 AM
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Personally, if you are consuming soup from a bowl using a spoon, then you are eating it, even if there are no bread products involved.

If you consume it from a mug (cup-a-soup style) then you drink it.
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  #31972  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:08 AM
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This Fridays BBS debate is back on.
How I miss SexyChoc and his Friday afternoon meltdowns.
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  #31973  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Personally, if you are consuming soup from a bowl using a spoon, then you are eating it, even if there are no bread products involved.

If you consume it from a mug (cup-a-soup style) then you drink it.

I like this.



But it falls apart if you tell me you are drinking croutons.


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  #31974  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
This Fridays BBS debate is back on.

Chunky - Eaten

consommé - Drunk

Minestrone - ? though I lean towards drunk as it does not require the mandible.
Also, does anyone have these when they're NOT having a colonoscopy?
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  #31975  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:20 AM
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It certainly puts strain on the division. I think whilst you are consuming it in the way you would a cup of tea, you are drinking; but when you resort to a spoon to get the croutons (and other bits) then you are eating.

[Edit - in response to Maz]
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  #31976  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
Personally, if you are consuming soup from a bowl using a spoon, then you are eating it, even if there are no bread products involved.

If you consume it from a mug (cup-a-soup style) then you drink it.
No way can it be considered eating when consuming consommé, with or without a spoon.

Anyway to put this thread back on track;

You eat Jewish penicillin.
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  #31977  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:26 AM
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We should ask the experts:

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  #31978  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by stevek View Post
It certainly puts strain on the division. I think whilst you are consuming it in the way you would a cup of tea, you are drinking; but when you resort to a spoon to get the croutons (and other bits) then you are eating.

[Edit - in response to Maz]

If you just allow gravity to put the croutons in your mouth you are drinking them?
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  #31979  
Old 12-07-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
If you just allow gravity to put the croutons in your mouth you are drinking them?
No, you are drinking the soup that accompanies them, but eating the croutons. As I accepted, this is all rather stretching the simple division I espoused, but I think it just about holds.

I need to reflect on ES's point on consomme.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:38 AM
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I need to reflect on ES's point on consomme.
No reflecting needed. I actually take it a stage further and say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to eat consommé.
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