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  #1721  
Old 02-09-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
Awful odds - ie you wont make much money on the basic "to stay up":

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Cheers, I think its bet hi lo i'm thinking of. Spread betting where they allocate Palace a set amount of points and you win more or lose more depending whether you choose more or less. The more points they get, the more you win. I think our unfancied side will more than hold their own, now we have a manager and have addressed the gaps. I used to have an account, will check it and see what they are offering. I do quite like James's idea of betting against Palace to numb the pain when we lose though Those bets can be the backup
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Last edited by elgin eagle; 02-09-2014 at 08:58 AM.
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  #1722  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Cameron Jerome, Aaron Wilbrham and Glenn Murray have left us.

Last season combined:
Played: 24 (22)
Scored: 3

Campbell last year:
Played: 32 (5)
Scored: 6


Last season we played Ward at LB as Pulis did not want to play Parr or Moxey. So at the very leaset we are the same as last year and if Fryers comes in we are therefore stronger.

I therefore disagree with both your comments. Of course we could be stronger in both areas but to suggest we are weaker than last year is fantasy!
Totally disagree.

Jerome was a much better fit in our system than Campbell is or ever will be.

Murray is plainly better than Doyle who is awful - 3 goals in 29 League One games last season says it all.

Gayle is a better striker now, I grant you.

As for LB, we have not strengthened as Ward will continue to play LB. Parr was easily as good as Fryers in terms of Fryers being ready for the first team, which he's not.

We had a major chance here to strengthen the forward line and at left back and, quite frankly, we have blown it.

Onwards and upwards but we've taken a gamble which i sincerely hope pays off but it's going to be a tough old season.
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  #1723  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
Cheers, I think its bet hi lo i'm thinking of. Spread betting where they allocate Palace a set amount of points and you win more or lose more depending whether you choose more or less. The more points they get, the more you win. I think our unfancied side will more than hold their own, now we have a manager and have addressed the gaps. I used to have an account, will check it and see what they are offering. I do quite like James's idea of betting against Palace to numb the pain when we lose though Those bets can be the backup
Yeah I checked Sporting Index too. The spread offered something like 31-34 on us. Realistically youd need to stick what 10/point to make good money on that...and frankly, this is Palace, you could lose 300.

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  #1724  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
Totally disagree.

Jerome was a much better fit in our system than Campbell is or ever will be.

Murray is plainly better than Doyle who is awful - 3 goals in 29 League One games last season says it all.

Gayle is a better striker now, I grant you.

As for LB, we have not strengthened as Ward will continue to play LB. Parr was easily as good as Fryers in terms of Fryers being ready for the first team, which he's not.

We had a major chance here to strengthen the forward line and at left back and, quite frankly, we have blown it.

Onwards and upwards but we've taken a gamble which i sincerely hope pays off but it's going to be a tough old season.
Surely any good team is the sum of its parts though, and you need to see them play together a few times before making any sort of worthwhile or meaningful judgement?

Apologies if that seems a little harsh.
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  #1725  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete79 View Post
I think our position last season has skewed our perception of where we are as a club. There was no separating the bottom 12 for most of last season. The tactics Pulis employed weren't helping a great deal until that 5 game winning run took us clear. Pulis set us up to not concede and be prepared to take what came our way and that happened to be an own goal by Terry. Before that win we'd lost 3 and drawn 2 of the last 5 games but that win transformed our confidence. Our next two games? Cardiff and Villa. 9 points changed the season. Lucky those games against Liverpool and Man City we're at the end rather than in this 5 game run.

The point is, we stayed up through luck, hard work and team spirit. If we stay up again that's how we'll do it and we can't buy any of these things for 10 million. But we can make Selhurst very unwelcome for our relegation rivals and it might be our home games against these teams that decide it.
Luck is always involved in football, but we did not finish 11th due to luck, we finished 11th because of a squad of players with a great attitude and sufficient skill and more importantly a brilliantly astute manager who knew what he was doing, transforming the team from the time he took over, by making us resilient and hard to beat.
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  #1726  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
Yeah I checked Sporting Index too. The spread offered something like 31-34 on us. Realistically youd need to stick what 10/point to make good money on that...and frankly, this is Palace, you could lose 300.

No way Jose. Once we get a settled back four and cut out most of the silly errors we will be absolutely fine. Most of this league is just hype imho, and nw will install the us-against-the-world spirit that will see us better than 3 other teams, at least.
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  #1727  
Old 02-09-2014, 09:25 AM
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This is from Patrick Barclay and I have to say that I agree with the sentiment even though he uses the example of one of our new players to make his point:

Nothing turns me off football like a transfer window.

There is nothing wrong with the principle, because it prevents the rich and under-achieving from unsettling other clubs’ players all year round, but the speculation is often more interesting than the reality.

Far worse, the closure of the summer market three matches into the Premier League season always strikes me as both a self-inflicted wound to the competition’s integrity and an insult to the audience.

But this year there seemed no harm in a peek at the rolling news, mainly to see if Sky had found a way of preventing local scallywags from disrupting the earnest speculation of smart-suited reporters outside training grounds.

The answer was a reassuring ‘’no’’ and the bonus of an obscured view of James McArthur arriving at Crystal Palace did no harm until the director switched to pictures of a blacked-out Bentley which contained, we were assured, Zeki Fryers. That was it and, until a better image of football’s grotesquely inflated self-importance arises, always will be.

A game that deems Zeki Fryers worthy of smoked glass, let alone a Bentley – whether his or that of the agent taking him from Tottenham to Palace – can hardly be in possession of its senses.

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  #1728  
Old 02-09-2014, 10:17 AM
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I have deliberately avoided reading the thread this morning and thought I would post 'untainted'. Last night it was a bit cringe worthy TBH but balanced by some balanced tweets this morning.

General point - I thought Garvan was leaving us etc. but assume loans can complete to Championship/League clubs after the deadline? Excuse my ignorance. If no one is leaving that is a disappointment. There is little point having players that will never play sitting around and it's not good for them either. I do get the point re needing competition but I am talking about the ones outside of that. Garvan, Kebe, Ramage and McCarthy will all find it difficult to get on the bench and potentially are in the way of Innis, Boateng, Gray etc. They need to be playing unless they are coaching maybe?

Keepers - we are sorted. Didn't lose anyone :-) - looks stronger than last August and Kettings for the future.

Defenders - Hopefully sorted. We do have LB at last and with Kelly/Ward have cover and J B-W has time to develop. Fryers should get a real chance to establish himself now and if his earlier reputation reflects reality then we might have a player on our hands. He needs some patience from the crowd/BBS etc. as he is still a youngster and deserves to be treated as one of our own.

Quick word re Hangeland. This guy has been a classy player over the years. He can bring something to our defence but has missed pre-season and then been thrust into the cauldron. Intelligent footballer who can pass the ball. Why do new players get picked on as if they have cheated us somehow these days? I seem to remember in the past we loved a player until he proved over time that he couldn't hack it. Even Wayne Andrews was raved about initially - I didn't say it was accurate - and loved for a good while. Now we seem to discount a player that we haven't even seen play and scream for blood at the first mistake. I digress as ever.

Defence looks far stronger and with potential to improve so tick . . . .

Midfield - Zaha, McArthur added and retained the rest and locked down Yala. Sounds pretty good. The much maligned J Thomas offers us something to now fit (I know, I know) and so we are good to go I reckon. Need a bit of luck with injuries maybe but definite improvement. Be interesting to see Ledley, McArthur and Chamakh in the middle when Jedi is away. I think we will be pleasantly surprised, especially with Wilf and an on form Yala out wide. Could be exciting. To upset a few - I can't see Joniesta breaking into the team and this is harder now if Warnock fancies Bannan as a player. Neither will start and it sounded like Joniesta was the one going out (on loan maybe) not Bannan. I want him to be great but he has to step up now. I really hope he can do it. Playing in the Championship would have helped.

Forwards - Fraizer Campbell - is potentially a great purchase if we give him a chance. He is definite upgrade on Jerome. Intelligent, good technical skills and a good leap. He works hard too. He doesn't run around like an idiot just to look good though. 'We', like most crowds, tend to love the dumb Ox that runs himself into the ground. He is neither but don't underestimate his effectiveness. He can play in the Chamakh role too. He will do it differently but he has the passing range to do well here. especially with 2 of Chamakh, Ledley and McArthur behind him.

Doyle - poor sod. The reaction of many is over the top.

The guy is 30, hardly old. At his best he was a workhorse with skill and finished well although never prolific. He has played around 37 games per season min for the past 5 years and finished last season at QPR. His goals have dried up but TBH he was at Wolves in their decline. I don't know the background but for both 'Harry' and 'Neil' to think he can do a job for him there is something there still. He won't come in and score 25 goals for us. But he should work the defence hard when he comes on.

I doubt he will start very often but who knows. His career average is 3.6 games per goal which beats Jeromes 1 in 14 for us but to be fair recent seasons he has dried up - don't know why? I would have guessed he was unhappy being there but don't know the story behind it all. We should just give the guy a chance.

Overall for the forwards, if we had got a Wickham, McGoldrick, Hooper or exciting foreign equivalent it would have been a superb window. We have more to do in January but we have the cash set aside to do that.

I understand the angst re Murray shipping out but I would like to think if he scores a hat-full/plays really well we may bring him back and if he doesn't it probably is time for him to move on sadly. Always a hero but like others our promotion has been bad timing for him.

Good window - squad improved. In the circumstances with Moody, Pulis leaving and Tim Coe on his way out and warnock arriving at the last minute it was probably an impressive recovery.

My glass is half full and I am looking forward to seeing what we can do against Burnley.
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  #1729  
Old 02-09-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
So where are the weaknesses?
Lack of a big target man who can hold the ball well. On current form Wilf just replaces Yannick who needs to move up a level. I can't see anyone who can potentially score 15+ goals in the season. A proper replacement for Delaney.
Cover for Jedinak.
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  #1730  
Old 02-09-2014, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
Surely any good team is the sum of its parts though, and you need to see them play together a few times before making any sort of worthwhile or meaningful judgement?

Apologies if that seems a little harsh.
We definitely need to be a team that is stronger than the sum of its parts. It's the Palace way and I like that, but just wish we could have added more quality in key areas. Looking forward to seeing McArthur especially - always liked the look of him.
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  #1731  
Old 02-09-2014, 10:42 AM
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Excellent post Martin. Hate the fact that we always seem to have a boo boy at the club. After Puncheon last season, it seems that Hangeland has picked up the mantle. Fully agree with the rest of your post, we have a nice, more balanced squad now, full of fit strong players willing to die for the cause, and many with points to prove. We are going to be absolutely fine. Looking forward now to see whether wrighty and geoff thomas come in as top coaches to further improve the mood around the place. Coppell can come back as Director of Football too, if he asks nicely

Considering the position pulis put us in by fecking off as soon as he got his bonus sorted, I think we've done very well. Bit strange letting Murray go on loan, but if we have a recall clause its all good. Think we paid a lot for mcarthur too, but hopefully he's as good and strong as my scottish colleagues have been telling me he is. We have improved each window, and will hopefully become as hard to beat as we were last season again.
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  #1732  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
Lack of a big target man who can hold the ball well. On current form Wilf just replaces Yannick who needs to move up a level. I can't see anyone who can potentially score 15+ goals in the season.
Which of these should we have signed?

Luis Suarez, Daniel Sturridge, Yaya Toure, Sergio Aguero, Wayne Rooney, Olivier Giroud, Wilfried Bony, Edin Dzeko, or Romelu Lukaku?

Not one of them moved for less than 10m.
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  #1733  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
Totally disagree.

Jerome was a much better fit in our system than Campbell is or ever will be.

Murray is plainly better than Doyle who is awful - 3 goals in 29 League One games last season says it all.

Gayle is a better striker now, I grant you.

As for LB, we have not strengthened as Ward will continue to play LB. Parr was easily as good as Fryers in terms of Fryers being ready for the first team, which he's not.

We had a major chance here to strengthen the forward line and at left back and, quite frankly, we have blown it.

Onwards and upwards but we've taken a gamble which i sincerely hope pays off but it's going to be a tough old season.
Some big assumptions and a couple of inaccuracies in there.

Will we play the same system under Warnock? Will there be the same requirement for a target man? We played a lot more on the deck against Newcastle i thought.

You are assuming Ward will play LB and Fryers won't come in there. I think Fryers will play and Ward will go to RB but we shall see.

Doyle scored 2 in 8 starts in the CHAMPIONSHIP second half of last season, and has been brought in as a different option but 4th/5th choice up front for 4 months.

We tried to bring in other players but there were not many players available. Very hard to see a realistic striker we could have signed who has gone elsewhere and fitted into the criteria we had throughout the window which apprears to have been PL experience.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:27 AM
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:35 AM
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With regards to the striker, Dwight Gayle scored 7 League goals last year (all be it in only 23 appearances, would easily have hit 10 in a full season). Other players to score 7 league goals last year include:

- Fabio Borini
- Yohan Cabaye
- Shane Long
- David Silva

With this in mind, had we signed any of those 4 would we have done good business and had the scorer we need?
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:39 AM
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all,
just give some thought to changing the formation to 4-3-3 and the purchases and cover and development of our own makes sense.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
With regards to the striker, Dwight Gayle scored 7 League goals last year (all be it in only 23 appearances, would easily have hit 10 in a full season). Other players to score 7 league goals last year include:

- Fabio Borini
- Yohan Cabaye
- Shane Long
- David Silva

With this in mind, had we signed any of those 4 would we have done good business and had the scorer we need?
Borini fee was 10m+ and he wanted 90k a week - good business?
Cabaye engineered a move away and cost 19m
Shane Long only moved for 12m
David Silva cost 24m

So no, for us they would not have been good business IMO.

Jason Puncheon scored 7 - he cost us 1.75m!!!!

People talk about 15-20 goal a season strikers as though they are plentiful. To hit double figures in the PL is tough.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Luck is always involved in football, but we did not finish 11th due to luck, we finished 11th because of a squad of players with a great attitude and sufficient skill and more importantly a brilliantly astute manager who knew what he was doing, transforming the team from the time he took over, by making us resilient and hard to beat.
Yes, I thought that was what I said! Although I don't think the 'luck' necessarily normalizes itself over 38 games. Our lack of injuries and Terry's own goal were important.

Regardless, we surely have sufficient talent to stay up so long as the hard work and great attitude remain in place. That may involve making less changes to the team rather than more.
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  #1739  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Borini fee was 10m+ and he wanted 90k a week - good business?
Cabaye engineered a move away and cost 19m
Shane Long only moved for 12m
David Silva cost 24m

So no, for us they would not have been good business IMO.

Jason Puncheon scored 7 - he cost us 1.75m!!!!

People talk about 15-20 goal a season strikers as though they are plentiful. To hit double figures in the PL is tough.
That's exactly my point. Some of our fans are never happy. I think Wilfried Bony was the only Premier League striker to get 15 goals outside of a top 4 club.

Adam Johnson, Jay Rodriguez and Christian Benteke the only to score MORE than Gayle/Puncheon and not play for a team in Europe this season (lots from Southampton but they now all play for Liverpool).

Again, based on this, who on earth do people think we should've signed!!?


My only major regret this summer is Sigurdsson.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:47 PM
Mr Palace Mr Palace is online now
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Some big assumptions and a couple of inaccuracies in there.

Will we play the same system under Warnock? Will there be the same requirement for a target man? We played a lot more on the deck against Newcastle i thought.

You are assuming Ward will play LB and Fryers won't come in there. I think Fryers will play and Ward will go to RB but we shall see.

Doyle scored 2 in 8 starts in the CHAMPIONSHIP second half of last season, and has been brought in as a different option but 4th/5th choice up front for 4 months.

We tried to bring in other players but there were not many players available. Very hard to see a realistic striker we could have signed who has gone elsewhere and fitted into the criteria we had throughout the window which apprears to have been PL experience.
I doubt whether Fryers will play over Ward or Kelly at full back. And the Double Ds have got the CB positions rightly nailed down.

Doyle is a turd that can't be polished no matter what you say.

As for us trying hard to bring in players, that may be the case but I wish we didn't have to leave it so late every time...
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