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  #1021  
Old 24-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Quite an interesting rebuttal about many climate change denial claims from the Guardian

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Some of the questions Conspiracy Theoriests raise are interesting, and some are even important, but the use of selective data sets, non-peer reviewed material, vague generalisations simply aren't enough. When you're claiming that x is deliberately engaged in a conspiracy to hide the truth, then you need to prove that they're lying, not construct a loose generalised suggustive arguement that everyone is 'lying' except you.

Its like the 9/11 Conspiracy theoriests who just kept changing their argumement when they were wrong (moving the goal posts) rather than question whether their underlying assumptions and hypothesis were valid.

It doesn't help that time and again these theories seem to come back to morally questionable (ie bankrupt) political movements, who are cyncial in trying to co-opt 'non mainstream' groups into a cohesive movement.

When its not NASA its the UN conspiring to somehow use climate change to institute a sinister socialist universal state.

You read his history and it reads like a text book.

Promotes Racism- Check
Opposed Gay Marriage - Check
Nationalist - Check
Fear of the Left - Check
Speaks in Hyperbole - Check
Anti-Semetic - Seems like a check (the old Jews and Bankers)
Trump supporter - Check
Believes benefits = scrounger - Check
Links to Fossil Fuels - Check

Has no scientific basis to his claims - check.

It'd be interesting if some of these people managed to not keep falling into the same profile.
Summed it up much more eloquently than I could.
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  #1022  
Old 24-10-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbush View Post
"Patrick Moore Co-founder of Greenpeace" ...well you made that up for a start.
He isn't (unless you choose not to believe Greenpeace).
I make nothing up. To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #1023  
Old 24-10-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ifill Over View Post
I make nothing up. To view the link you have to Register or Login
Itís not you thatís making things up, according to Greenpeace itís him.

(You could argue that Greenpeace are particularly keen to deny the level of his involvement at the beginning for obvious reasons. They appear as bad as everyone else when it comes to hiding unpalatable facts from their past.)
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  #1024  
Old 24-10-2019, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
His source is some video with 2k views I had schoolmates with more views on their YouTube channels than that.

As always with climate change deniers, they think extremely obscure websites and videos are a compelling argument against what 97% of the scientific community says. Conspiracy theorist nutjobs.
I am above being derogatory to my fellow BBS posters
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  #1025  
Old 24-10-2019, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
Itís not you thatís making things up, according to Greenpeace itís him.

(You could argue that Greenpeace are particularly keen to deny the level of his involvement at the beginning for obvious reasons. They appear as bad as everyone else when it comes to hiding unpalatable facts from their past.)
It is rather unfortunate, you can not take anything at face value anymore.
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  #1026  
Old 24-10-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cockles View Post
People like you are exactly the problem.
Zero dialogue.
Iím the problem. What do I need to do to solve these issues?
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  #1027  
Old 24-10-2019, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Quite an interesting rebuttal about many climate change denial claims from the Guardian

To view the link you have to Register or Login

Some of the questions Conspiracy Theoriests raise are interesting, and some are even important, but the use of selective data sets, non-peer reviewed material, vague generalisations simply aren't enough. When you're claiming that x is deliberately engaged in a conspiracy to hide the truth, then you need to prove that they're lying, not construct a loose generalised suggustive arguement that everyone is 'lying' except you.

Its like the 9/11 Conspiracy theoriests who just kept changing their argumement when they were wrong (moving the goal posts) rather than question whether their underlying assumptions and hypothesis were valid.

It doesn't help that time and again these theories seem to come back to morally questionable (ie bankrupt) political movements, who are cyncial in trying to co-opt 'non mainstream' groups into a cohesive movement.

When its not NASA its the UN conspiring to somehow use climate change to institute a sinister socialist universal state.

You read his history and it reads like a text book.

Promotes Racism- Check
Opposed Gay Marriage - Check
Nationalist - Check
Fear of the Left - Check
Speaks in Hyperbole - Check
Anti-Semetic - Seems like a check (the old Jews and Bankers)
Trump supporter - Check
Believes benefits = scrounger - Check
Links to Fossil Fuels - Check

Has no scientific basis to his claims - check.

It'd be interesting if some of these people managed to not keep falling into the same profile.
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  #1028  
Old 24-10-2019, 09:55 PM
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Climate Hustle To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #1029  
Old 25-10-2019, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think one could make an arguement that plastics aren't actually the problem here, its how we treat and use them (and probably more significantly how we've avoided finding effective means of reuse and reclaimation for reuse) due to it being profitable.

Fossil Fuels - Sooner or later they'll run out - and that really is a problem as human life and its population sizes is very much dependent on fossil fuels to maintain - We cannot go back to feeding 'ourselves' etc via traditional aggricultural means, we require industrialised production in order to survive.
Fossil fuels will not run out. Britain alone still has about 300 years worth of coal under previous consumption rates last I read. More oil can be discovered and burned. We will change use before it runs out.
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  #1030  
Old 25-10-2019, 07:56 AM
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  #1031  
Old 25-10-2019, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockles View Post
I think the problem in a nutshell is that it's an issue for debate, but at the level where it matters there is actually no debating happening.
Is that not because this issue is the one thing most people (and even political parties in the UK at least) agree on? The only debate that has happened in the last few months is how 'pure' your beliefs are. Extinction Rebellion is more religion than protest group.
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  #1032  
Old 25-10-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by macstar View Post
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Oh my God.
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  #1033  
Old 25-10-2019, 09:45 AM
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A very good article, this is all reminiscent of the UN, Blair and Bush weapons of mass destruction rouse.
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  #1034  
Old 25-10-2019, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
One of the conspiracy theorists on this thread mentioned George Soros. He gets blamed for lots of things by these sorts of people. Iím sure the fact that heís Jewish is a complete coincidence.
Interesting that Melanie Phillips, in that link, also blames George Soros.

Iím sure the fact that sheís Jewish is also a complete coincidence.
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  #1035  
Old 25-10-2019, 10:34 AM
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My suspicion as to why the rouse became necessary was the recognition that Moores law was due to come to an end. To view the link you have to Register or Login

I remember in the late '90s it became a hot topic, what would drive economic growth beyond 2010/20. Then again I might be giving them too much credit.
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  #1036  
Old 25-10-2019, 11:37 AM
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she lost any semblance of reason years ago. Try again.
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  #1037  
Old 25-10-2019, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ifill Over View Post
A very good article, this is all reminiscent of the UN, Blair and Bush weapons of mass destruction rouse.
not comparable at all.
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  #1038  
Old 25-10-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifill Over View Post
A very good article, this is all reminiscent of the UN, Blair and Bush weapons of mass destruction rouse.
Definately a better source.
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  #1039  
Old 25-10-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
Interesting that Melanie Phillips, in that link, also blames George Soros.

I’m sure the fact that she’s Jewish is also a complete coincidence.
There’s black people (or Tories more specifically) who abuse Diane Abbott, that doesn’t take away from the fact that some of the abuse of her is racially motivated. The same applies in this case with Soros and the conspiracy nuts.
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  #1040  
Old 26-10-2019, 11:00 AM
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Whichever side of the debate you are on with climate change look what happens when consensus is questioned.

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A scientist should be able to freely represent his findings, even if that goes against the consensus. His motivation was that he saw policies being introduced that would unnecessarily impact businesses in Queensland.

He was fired from his University and used crowdfunding to fight his case for unfair dismissal. The consequence is that it gags scientists questioning science deterring other scientists in the process.

Interestingly he raises the 'Replication Crisis' present in science for the past 40 years, basically, 50% of Science cannot be replicated.

I did a little further digging, he has since won his case, but the university has appealed, which is going to cost him a further AUS $1,200,000 to fight.

Last edited by Ifill Over; 26-10-2019 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Added some detail.
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