Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Ľ Off Topic Ľ The Politics Forum

Notices

The Politics Forum Discussions that are wholly or mainly concerned with UK politics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #9201  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:02 PM
Reps AJ's Avatar
Reps AJ Reps AJ is offline
Climbing for dollars
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Somewhere you're not
Posts: 17,658
Rep Power: 21474856
Reps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is hereReps AJ Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Vote share / size of Tory majorities is like Brighton fans arguing about crowdsize or concourse quality.
Vanity metrics. See also, membership numbers
Reply With Quote
  #9202  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:02 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 20,789
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.
Reply With Quote
  #9203  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:02 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49,854
Rep Power: 21474854
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
The disaster the left led Labour to in 2019 didn’t give the Tories as big a majority as the disaster the left led Labour to in the 1980s is quite the argument.
Reply With Quote
  #9204  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:03 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 43
Posts: 71,633
Rep Power: 21474853
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.
The Theresa May factor
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #9205  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:03 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,634
Rep Power: 21474846
dogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
I've got lots of friends and family in the north, pretty much all labour, and I spent a lot of time talking about how they saw things. It was fairly obvious from the outset, that they saw what labour had become, as a completely different entity to the one they were used to . They resented being called racists for voting for brexit ( a very standard response by the left ) they were very angry at Corbyns terrorist connections, they also didn't take too kindly to being criticised for being proud of the country they live in by middle class student types, who had never broken sweat doing a days work in their life. The whole 9 yards of wokery is another issue that seemed to irk them . The staggering thing about all this was that the labour party canvassers were told all this and yet they still pushed the same ethos to them . They just didn't listen, probably because they didn't want to , and the rest is history, they voted Tory .
So nothing to do with actual policies then just that there a bunch of snowflakes who's feelings got hurt because the weak wristed middle class minority membership called them names they didn't like. Oh those nasty student types from the South, saying nasty things about those big hard gruff manly northerners....

A bunch of pussies.
Reply With Quote
  #9206  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:03 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 20,789
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
The point of the Labour Party is to be a parliamentary Labour Party (it says so in the handbook) not to restrict the Tory majority. Therefore it is only right to judge the party in terms of seats the Labour Party won. Itís how the Labour Party did against all other parties. If labour won an election then the size of majority matters because it is how labour did against all other parties.

Vote share / size of Tory majorities is like Brighton fans arguing about crowdsize or concourse quality.
Well no because it was far, far easier to get more seats in the 1980s because there was no SNP to speak of. The 2015 election massively changed that and it will never go back.
Reply With Quote
  #9207  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:06 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 43
Posts: 71,633
Rep Power: 21474853
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Well no because it was far, far easier to get more seats in the 1980s because there was no SNP to speak of. The 2015 election massively changed that and it will never go back.
The SNP didnít stand in the 1980s?
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #9208  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:10 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 25,202
Rep Power: 21474851
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
The issue though is did Corbyn lose because of things like his past association and friendship with unpleasant individuals/organisations or because his socialism was too strong for the electorate? A big difference. If it was the former then they should keep going with the big spending socialism. Personally i think the electorate is leaning rightwards socially but economically left and there is absolutely no mandate for public spending cuts.
__________________
I only have one user name
Reply With Quote
  #9209  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:13 PM
RDSdaEAGLE's Avatar
RDSdaEAGLE RDSdaEAGLE is offline
Sans Peur
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Surrey
Age: 38
Posts: 29,034
Rep Power: 21474858
RDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.
Perhaps now is a good time to remind people that, since July 2019, Corbyn only once dropped below 70% for that same metric, on the 18th of November 2019 when 68% of respondents felt he did not look like a PM in waiting. By the 20th of January 2020, that had gone up to 79% of respondents believing he didn't look like a PM in waiting.

It's also worth remembering that Starmer's statistics have significantly dropped since the beginning of January, a point at which the UK government started the vaccine rollout. A point which you are only to happy to ignore.
Reply With Quote
  #9210  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:14 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49,854
Rep Power: 21474854
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Not sure pointing out how poorly people think Starmer is doing is a great tactic for the Corbynites since, while true, it doesn’t stop this being true simultaneously

Quote:
Survey of Labour party members:

"Compared to Jeremy Corbyn, do you think Keir Starmer is doing better, worse, or about the same as leader of the Labour Party?"

Better: 61%
Worse: 29%

via @YouGov, 17 - 24 Mar
Reply With Quote
  #9211  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:15 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 43
Posts: 71,633
Rep Power: 21474853
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
I’m not sure Starmer isn’t as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #9212  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:16 PM
meee meee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,357
Rep Power: 21474845
meee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
I don't think they do from the conversations I've had . It was essentially a protest vote at the lurch to the left and the deep dislike of Corbyn and the rabble he courted. They are still labour voters , just not Corbyns labour . Starmer has work To do, and if he is as smart as a lawyer should be, he will know exactly how to get them back . We are talking about working class people here, not idealistic Islington dwellers worried about the price of a latte .
This post has so many inaccuracies that I don't even know where to start.
Reply With Quote
  #9213  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:19 PM
strolling bones's Avatar
strolling bones strolling bones is online now
chubby browns joke writer
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: With Paul Young's headgear
Posts: 6,955
Rep Power: 21474845
strolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is herestrolling bones Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
So nothing to do with actual policies then just that there a bunch of snowflakes who's feelings got hurt because the weak wristed middle class minority membership called them names they didn't like. Oh those nasty student types from the South, saying nasty things about those big hard gruff manly northerners....

A bunch of pussies.
Exactly the sort of perception they had yes.. You obviously don't give a shit about the Tories winning seats they had no chance in before Corbyn and people like you came along, and yet you bleat like a newborn lamb because they did . Learn the lessons or prepare for another few years Tory rule. I'd be quite happy for the far left to disappear up their own arses , so posts like yours above are manna from heaven to me.
__________________




Impervious to fvck bullets
Reply With Quote
  #9214  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:20 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49,854
Rep Power: 21474854
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Iím not sure Starmer isnít as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.
Labour need to be ruthless. If Starmer for any length of time becomes a drag on the party they need to ditch him. Likewise if he loses support of the Parliamentary Party. I would have some sympathy for the idea that theyíre going to lose the next election anyway so maybe have a leader who will sort things out to enable a launchpad to success after. But I donít see a lot of evidence of that.

So if you get to the point that the public/your colleagues donít like you, and you arenít doing anything to pave the way for electoral success after you, then itís time to pull the trigger.

Still. Heís not there yet.
Reply With Quote
  #9215  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:20 PM
RDSdaEAGLE's Avatar
RDSdaEAGLE RDSdaEAGLE is offline
Sans Peur
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Surrey
Age: 38
Posts: 29,034
Rep Power: 21474858
RDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is hereRDSdaEAGLE Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Iím not sure Starmer isnít as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.
I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.
Reply With Quote
  #9216  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:23 PM
Heb 7:4's Avatar
Heb 7:4 Heb 7:4 is offline
Its gonna be a lovely day
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49,854
Rep Power: 21474854
Heb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is hereHeb 7:4 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE View Post
I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.
This is true, but the issue is his/Labourís electability. Not in relation to Corbyn but to the public.

Itís only when pointing out the rank hypocrisy of his supporters that Corbynís far more dismal showing becomes relevant.

Good point on vaccine roll out though. Gov getting a real boost from that, despite earlier mishandling.
Reply With Quote
  #9217  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:24 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 20,789
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
The disaster the left led Labour to in 2019 didnít give the Tories as big a majority as the disaster the left led Labour to in the 1980s is quite the argument.
It isn't great, but neither is the best centrism has done since 2005 is worse than 2017.
Reply With Quote
  #9218  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:25 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 20,789
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
The SNP didnít stand in the 1980s?
They got nowhere, where as 2015 led to them being the major force in Scotland and that's not gonna change, so Labour can get far less seats.
Reply With Quote
  #9219  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:26 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 43
Posts: 71,633
Rep Power: 21474853
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE View Post
I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.
Corbyn faced challenges after 1 year or so when polling ratings were poor and local election results were poor. If Starmer has poor local election results and national polling remains poor, then it is entirely reasonable that he is challenged over the summer.

I donít think he will be by anyone who would be capable of defeating him as the big boys will bide their time. But this is a poor government who are having a bad covid and a dreadful Brexit. It wonít get much easier than it is now.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #9220  
Old 08-04-2021, 02:26 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lewisham
Posts: 20,789
Rep Power: 21474853
cockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is herecockneyrebel Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE View Post
Perhaps now is a good time to remind people that, since July 2019, Corbyn only once dropped below 70% for that same metric, on the 18th of November 2019 when 68% of respondents felt he did not look like a PM in waiting. By the 20th of January 2020, that had gone up to 79% of respondents believing he didn't look like a PM in waiting.

It's also worth remembering that Starmer's statistics have significantly dropped since the beginning of January, a point at which the UK government started the vaccine rollout. A point which you are only to happy to ignore.
Yes corbyn had terrible stats. So does Starmer if not as bad. I would bet though that Starmer's Labour ends up doing worst than 2017.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
Oldtown Eagle
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.