Keir Starmer - Labour Party leader

[Reps AJ]

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst

Vote share / size of Tory majorities is like Brighton fans arguing about crowdsize or concourse quality.

Vanity metrics. See also, membership numbers

[cockneyrebel]

52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.

[Heb 7:4]

The disaster the left led Labour to in 2019 didn’t give the Tories as big a majority as the disaster the left led Labour to in the 1980s is quite the argument.

[Adlerhorst]

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel

52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.

The Theresa May factor

[dogstar721]

Originally Posted by strolling bones

I've got lots of friends and family in the north, pretty much all labour, and I spent a lot of time talking about how they saw things. It was fairly obvious from the outset, that they saw what labour had become, as a completely different entity to the one they were used to . They resented being called racists for voting for brexit ( a very standard response by the left ) they were very angry at Corbyns terrorist connections, they also didn't take too kindly to being criticised for being proud of the country they live in by middle class student types, who had never broken sweat doing a days work in their life. The whole 9 yards of wokery is another issue that seemed to irk them . The staggering thing about all this was that the labour party canvassers were told all this and yet they still pushed the same ethos to them . They just didn't listen, probably because they didn't want to , and the rest is history, they voted Tory .

So nothing to do with actual policies then just that there a bunch of snowflakes who's feelings got hurt because the weak wristed middle class minority membership called them names they didn't like. Oh those nasty student types from the South, saying nasty things about those big hard gruff manly northerners....

A bunch of pussies.

[cockneyrebel]

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst

The point of the Labour Party is to be a parliamentary Labour Party (it says so in the handbook) not to restrict the Tory majority. Therefore it is only right to judge the party in terms of seats the Labour Party won. It’s how the Labour Party did against all other parties. If labour won an election then the size of majority matters because it is how labour did against all other parties.

Vote share / size of Tory majorities is like Brighton fans arguing about crowdsize or concourse quality.

Well no because it was far, far easier to get more seats in the 1980s because there was no SNP to speak of. The 2015 election massively changed that and it will never go back.

[Adlerhorst]

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel

Well no because it was far, far easier to get more seats in the 1980s because there was no SNP to speak of. The 2015 election massively changed that and it will never go back.

The SNP didn’t stand in the 1980s?

[Nth Kent Eagle]

The issue though is did Corbyn lose because of things like his past association and friendship with unpleasant individuals/organisations or because his socialism was too strong for the electorate? A big difference. If it was the former then they should keep going with the big spending socialism. Personally i think the electorate is leaning rightwards socially but economically left and there is absolutely no mandate for public spending cuts.

[RDSdaEAGLE]

Originally Posted by cockneyrebel

52% of people now say Starmer does not look like a PM in waiting. Only 25% think he is.

Those stats have plummeted for him in the year he has been leader.

Perhaps now is a good time to remind people that, since July 2019, Corbyn only once dropped below 70% for that same metric, on the 18th of November 2019 when 68% of respondents felt he did not look like a PM in waiting. By the 20th of January 2020, that had gone up to 79% of respondents believing he didn't look like a PM in waiting.

It's also worth remembering that Starmer's statistics have significantly dropped since the beginning of January, a point at which the UK government started the vaccine rollout. A point which you are only to happy to ignore.

[Heb 7:4]

Not sure pointing out how poorly people think Starmer is doing is a great tactic for the Corbynites since, while true, it doesn’t stop this being true simultaneously

Survey of Labour party members:

"Compared to Jeremy Corbyn, do you think Keir Starmer is doing better, worse, or about the same as leader of the Labour Party?"

Better: 61%
Worse: 29%

via @YouGov, 17 - 24 Mar

[Adlerhorst]

I’m not sure Starmer isn’t as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.

[meee]

Originally Posted by strolling bones

I don't think they do from the conversations I've had . It was essentially a protest vote at the lurch to the left and the deep dislike of Corbyn and the rabble he courted. They are still labour voters , just not Corbyns labour . Starmer has work To do, and if he is as smart as a lawyer should be, he will know exactly how to get them back . We are talking about working class people here, not idealistic Islington dwellers worried about the price of a latte .

This post has so many inaccuracies that I don't even know where to start.

[strolling bones]

Originally Posted by dogstar721

So nothing to do with actual policies then just that there a bunch of snowflakes who's feelings got hurt because the weak wristed middle class minority membership called them names they didn't like. Oh those nasty student types from the South, saying nasty things about those big hard gruff manly northerners....

A bunch of pussies.

Exactly the sort of perception they had yes.. You obviously don't give a shit about the Tories winning seats they had no chance in before Corbyn and people like you came along, and yet you bleat like a newborn lamb because they did . Learn the lessons or prepare for another few years Tory rule. I'd be quite happy for the far left to disappear up their own arses , so posts like yours above are manna from heaven to me.

[Heb 7:4]

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst

I’m not sure Starmer isn’t as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.

Labour need to be ruthless. If Starmer for any length of time becomes a drag on the party they need to ditch him. Likewise if he loses support of the Parliamentary Party. I would have some sympathy for the idea that they’re going to lose the next election anyway so maybe have a leader who will sort things out to enable a launchpad to success after. But I don’t see a lot of evidence of that.

So if you get to the point that the public/your colleagues don’t like you, and you aren’t doing anything to pave the way for electoral success after you, then it’s time to pull the trigger.

Still. He’s not there yet.

[RDSdaEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst

I’m not sure Starmer isn’t as bad as Corbyn was is a winning argument.

I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.

[Heb 7:4]

Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE

I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.

This is true, but the issue is his/Labour’s electability. Not in relation to Corbyn but to the public.

It’s only when pointing out the rank hypocrisy of his supporters that Corbyn’s far more dismal showing becomes relevant.

Good point on vaccine roll out though. Gov getting a real boost from that, despite earlier mishandling.

[cockneyrebel]

Originally Posted by Heb 7:4

The disaster the left led Labour to in 2019 didn’t give the Tories as big a majority as the disaster the left led Labour to in the 1980s is quite the argument.

It isn't great, but neither is the best centrism has done since 2005 is worse than 2017.

[cockneyrebel]

Originally Posted by Adlerhorst

The SNP didn’t stand in the 1980s?

They got nowhere, where as 2015 led to them being the major force in Scotland and that's not gonna change, so Labour can get far less seats.

[Adlerhorst]

Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE

I think it's a fair argument to make if you contextualise the difference. Corbyn's electability as Prime Minsiter was consistently poor.

In comparison, Starmer's dip in popularity has coincided with the vaccine rollout. It's fair to argue that Labour haven't landed a huge number of punches in that time but clearly Johnson is riding a bit of a wave at the moment.

Corbyn faced challenges after 1 year or so when polling ratings were poor and local election results were poor. If Starmer has poor local election results and national polling remains poor, then it is entirely reasonable that he is challenged over the summer.

I don’t think he will be by anyone who would be capable of defeating him as the big boys will bide their time. But this is a poor government who are having a bad covid and a dreadful Brexit. It won’t get much easier than it is now.

[cockneyrebel]

Originally Posted by RDSdaEAGLE

Perhaps now is a good time to remind people that, since July 2019, Corbyn only once dropped below 70% for that same metric, on the 18th of November 2019 when 68% of respondents felt he did not look like a PM in waiting. By the 20th of January 2020, that had gone up to 79% of respondents believing he didn't look like a PM in waiting.

It's also worth remembering that Starmer's statistics have significantly dropped since the beginning of January, a point at which the UK government started the vaccine rollout. A point which you are only to happy to ignore.

Yes corbyn had terrible stats. So does Starmer if not as bad. I would bet though that Starmer's Labour ends up doing worst than 2017.