Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS » Other Sport » World of Football

Notices

World of Football All non Palace football talk - includes latest scores on Internationals and matches that affect palace.

View Poll Results: Penalty - Yes or No?
Yes it was penalty, referee was correct. 47 47.96%
No penalty, ref was wrong. 51 52.04%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:34 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Unbannable
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,702
Rep Power: 21474861
Raggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is here
WC Final 2018 - Was it a penalty?

Good article on the BBC about 'that incident'.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

I have to say I was surprised at the time by the universal view from the BBC pundits (Shearer, Ferdinand, etc), that the referee had got it wrong. So it will interesting to see what the BBs thinks.

For me it was a clear penalty and the referee was spot on.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:44 PM
FourtyTwo's Avatar
FourtyTwo FourtyTwo is offline
Crow Counting
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Neither here nor there!
Age: 43
Posts: 18,675
Rep Power: 21474858
FourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is hereFourtyTwo Sam the man is here
There was definitely a movement down with his hand as the ball came past the France player - whether it was a deliberate or involuntary movement I don't think anyone can say. If it was a deliberate movement, it was quite possibly to try and get his arm down in case the French player made contact and flicked it across the goal.

I think it shows why they need to think about how the handball rule works going forward, as the whole "deliberate act" is open to so much interpretation. I would change it to whether or not it stops the opposition gaining an advantage, but don't know how you'd manage that with something a foot away in the box that is accidental.

What I would say though, is that the referee definitely got the decision wrong - he gave a goal kick when at the very least it should have been a corner. Interesting side point - if he reviewed it and didn't give a penalty, could he have switched it to a corner, having watched the replay?
__________________
That's what I do. I drink and I know things.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:47 PM
Icy's Avatar
Icy Icy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: AWOL
Posts: 11,863
Rep Power: 21474859
Icy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is hereIcy Sam the man is here
Never a penalty and the free kick for the first goal wasn't a free kick either. **** the French.
__________________
"A stadium whose main distinguishing characteristic up till now has been its proximity to a big Sainsbury’s will become the new cathedral of total football."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:51 PM
davech's Avatar
davech davech is offline
Old and jaded
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S Norwood
Age: 70
Posts: 15,749
Rep Power: 21474850
davech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is here
I'm still not 100% sure. Basically, you would want them given for you, but not against.

And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters. And his dive to win the non-free kick for the first goal.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:52 PM
ebyeeckeagle's Avatar
ebyeeckeagle ebyeeckeagle is offline
Call me Ishmael
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Norvun Monkey
Age: 56
Posts: 25,698
Rep Power: 21474857
ebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is hereebyeeckeagle Sam the man is here
It is more a VAR discussion generally, but it's similar to rugby union replays on whether a player should be carded - for this sort of thing, the ref should make the final decision on real time speed not in some sort of super slow mo. Look at every angle going but slowing it down gives a false impression.

The answer is it should not have been given. It may well have been a deliberate handball, but the ref didn't give it and as seen by here and elsewhere (and his own time spent looking and re-looking), it wasn't that 'obvious' enough to overturn his decision.
__________________
God's own county - Kent.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:56 PM
Ruskin Old Boy's Avatar
Ruskin Old Boy Ruskin Old Boy is offline
Golden Oldie
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Camberwell
Age: 75
Posts: 96,189
Rep Power: 21474860
Ruskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is hereRuskin Old Boy Sam the man is here
Whatever. But it was a pleasure seeing the reaction of Lovren and Vida when the penalty was awarded.

And Mandzukic's own goal? A classic.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16-07-2018, 05:59 PM
kabbott's Avatar
kabbott kabbott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lyon, France
Age: 62
Posts: 25,178
Rep Power: 21474856
kabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters.
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:03 PM
brighton_eagle's Avatar
brighton_eagle brighton_eagle is offline
Lovely
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Age: 53
Posts: 55,316
Rep Power: 21474861
brighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruskin Old Boy View Post
Whatever. But it was a pleasure seeing the reaction of Lovren and Vida when the penalty was awarded.

And Mandzukic's own goal? A classic.
True.

But I was also surprised at how certain Shearer was that it wasn't a penalty. It looked to me like a deliberate movement with the hand. I don't believe any ref would have spotted it real time because of the position of the players.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:04 PM
brighton_eagle's Avatar
brighton_eagle brighton_eagle is offline
Lovely
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Age: 53
Posts: 55,316
Rep Power: 21474861
brighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is herebrighton_eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
I'm still not 100% sure. Basically, you would want them given for you, but not against.

And I'm still waiting for the retrospective action on Griezmann for his provocative "Loser" dance to the Croat supporters. And his dive to win the non-free kick for the first goal.
Isn't it a Fortnite emote? That's the impression I got from my kids.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:14 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Unbannable
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 4,702
Rep Power: 21474861
Raggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is hereRaggy Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabbott View Post
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
Can a dance be provocative simply because it is so crap?

Yes, I say. He should make an effort, its the World Cup FFS. I hope FIFA ban him and fine the French FA a seven figure sum.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:20 PM
cranesparkeagle's Avatar
cranesparkeagle cranesparkeagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Surbiton
Age: 62
Posts: 13,570
Rep Power: 21474856
cranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is herecranesparkeagle Sam the man is here
My problem with it was I didnt feel that the hand was in any kind was in any kind of natural position. On balance I thought it was a poor call. . Bigges grip or me is that once again VAR has been used on a marginal call when it was said that wouldnt be the case. I hope their will be a massive review of hiw its meant to work in future
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:27 PM
davech's Avatar
davech davech is offline
Old and jaded
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S Norwood
Age: 70
Posts: 15,749
Rep Power: 21474850
davech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabbott View Post
It was not a provocative dance to the Croat supporters. He's been doing it for a while now. He just goes to the nearest corner and does it! Pathetic dance yes, provocative no!
I do not follow European football, so thanks for the clarification. But surely there is no point in doing it to your own supporters, whilst it will only wind up the opposition. Or am I missing something?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:28 PM
davech's Avatar
davech davech is offline
Old and jaded
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S Norwood
Age: 70
Posts: 15,749
Rep Power: 21474850
davech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
Isn't it a Fortnite emote? That's the impression I got from my kids.
Sorry. Over my head. I'm practically an OAP.

Last edited by davech; 16-07-2018 at 06:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:32 PM
kabbott's Avatar
kabbott kabbott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lyon, France
Age: 62
Posts: 25,178
Rep Power: 21474856
kabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is herekabbott Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
I do not follow European football, so thanks for the clarification. But surely there is no point in doing it to your own supporters, whilst it will only wind up the opposition. Or am I missing something?
As I said, he just runs to the nearest corner regardless of whether it's his fans or opposition fans. It's probably not worth the bother to run the length of the pitch just to do that in front of his fans!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16-07-2018, 06:41 PM
davech's Avatar
davech davech is offline
Old and jaded
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S Norwood
Age: 70
Posts: 15,749
Rep Power: 21474850
davech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabbott View Post
As I said, he just runs to the nearest corner regardless of whether it's his fans or opposition fans. It's probably not worth the bother to run the length of the pitch just to do that in front of his fans!
Fair enough
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16-07-2018, 07:34 PM
JDawg's Avatar
JDawg JDawg is offline
face and voice for radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,626
Rep Power: 21474851
JDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is hereJDawg Sam the man is here
Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 16-07-2018, 07:36 PM
davech's Avatar
davech davech is offline
Old and jaded
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S Norwood
Age: 70
Posts: 15,749
Rep Power: 21474850
davech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is heredavech Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
Who would be brave enough to argue with Collina when he fixes you with those eyes?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16-07-2018, 07:36 PM
meee meee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 15,270
Rep Power: 21474848
meee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is heremeee Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
It's completely unfair.There are all kinds of ways that you can accidentally handball it.To penalise a player for it is absurd.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16-07-2018, 07:49 PM
PalaceSi's Avatar
PalaceSi PalaceSi is offline
red and blue army
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Brockley
Age: 63
Posts: 4,251
Rep Power: 21474859
PalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is herePalaceSi Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
Heard somewhere that Collina had let it be known after the first round that if it hit a hand in the area it would be treated as hand ball. If thats the way this law was being interpreted, fair enough.
So attackers in the area should be trying to hit the defenders hands or arms with the ball to win an easy penalty.

In my view penalties should not be given for accidental handball except in extreme circumstances. If there is no intent on the part of the defender to handle the ball and he didn't have time to get the hand out of the way then it should be deemed accidental.

It was a crucial decision in the world cup final and swayed the game towards France when the defender had no intention of handling it for me play should have been waved on.

I can understand there are circumstances when a definitive goal scoring opportunity is lost due to an accidental but significant hand ball so there is a grey area open to interpretation but in my view the incident in the final was not sufficient for a penalty to be given.

The Ref's do need to make their interpretation of this and they were split on Sundays decision. A directive needs to come from above as to what is and what isn't a penalty when such a grey area exists.

At least with the use of VAR we have the opportunity to see the incident several times before making the call, it was a shame on Sunday he saw it several times and still gave the wrong call in my view.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16-07-2018, 09:58 PM
Golf Boy's Avatar
Golf Boy Golf Boy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Baltic Sea
Age: 54
Posts: 53,195
Rep Power: 21474857
Golf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is here
The only time you see a ‘deliberate’ handball is when someone tries to stop a goal going in.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.