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World of Football All non Palace football talk - includes latest scores on Internationals and matches that affect palace. |
View Poll Results: Penalty - Yes or No? | |||
Yes it was penalty, referee was correct. | 47 | 47.96% | |
No penalty, ref was wrong. | 51 | 52.04% | |
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll |
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#21
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Players handball the ball whenever they think they can get away with it and they will gain an advantage from it. See Maradona, Henry, etc, etc. |
#22
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In their own box i meant.
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#23
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Yes, it's a penalty. He moves his hand down to stop the ball.
The reason he moves his hand is instinct. The player in front of him moves so he has to adjust, and that means moving his arm. Requiring something to be deliberate is a minefield. Most of the time I don't think they can prove what was intentional and what was not. It's not like Suarez saving on the line which was clearly intentional. This was instinctive and unfortunate. I don't think he means to slap the ball away, but with the movement down to stop the ball, they have to give it.
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#24
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Someone can look away from the ball but use their arms and hands to make themselves as big an obstacle as possible. That's a deliberate action regardless of whether they knew the ball would be hitting them or not.
Take Pique vs Russia. Looking the wrong way but with his arm up above his head. It was a penalty and so was the Croatian one in the final.
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13/05/2013 "Watford please please please beat this lot" |
#25
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I think it's a penalty, but the word 'deliberate' really muddies the waters. The dictionary definition of deliberate is 'done consciously and intentionally', so I suppose those saying 'no pen' are correct as I think it's an instinctive move (so done sub-consciously and unintentionally?), but Suarez blocking the ball on the line in 2010 against Ghana was also instinctive. For most incidents involving a defender and contact with the hand, there is surely not enough time for a 'conscious and intentional' decision to be made. I think if the hand moves into the line of the ball, no matter if instinctive or deliberate, it should be penalty. Last edited by PalaceForever; 17-07-2018 at 12:04 PM. |
#26
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In this instance it's clear that he didn't see the ball hit him in real time, because he gave a goal-kick, so should have the opportunity to see it again, but in real time speed.
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#27
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It was a penalty.
The player made a reflexive movement toward the ball, end of debate. Alan Shearer talks out of his arse as does Gary Neville. |
#28
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100% a penalty.
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#29
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My view was the Croat player slapped his hand down, which is a strange movement to make when you are defending in your own area, Even after looking at the video, the ref needed to go back to look again, which suggests he was still uncertain.
Penalty for me, hand moved towards ball.
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#30
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That's how I saw it after a few replays, that his arm movement seems natural enough, but that his hand moves towards the ball. I didn't think it was a penalty immediately, but the referee was also wrong in giving a goal kick (should at the least been a corner). Hand seemed to move directly towards the ball, rather than just down, and shapes itself to slap the ball. The ref clearly took a number of watches and advice before making a decision - Which is the point of VAR. |
#31
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I think a lot of pundits, looking at it, were right, that it wasn't a penalty before VAR, and would never be given, because the Referee didn't have the option of watching several times, before coming to a conclusion. Also very little in football is deliberate, usually time to think, is what results in the defender getting the ball, or missing the tackle and the keeper picking the ball out of the net. |
#32
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No, you do get incidents of players handling the ball in their own area, and no doubt that players also do training in order to make it look accidental as well. Just like players aren't supposed to grapple and pull other players shirts etc and do all the time.
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#33
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Not a penalty. The ball was stuck at such pace and from such a close distance, that's it's very difficult to reasonably conclude that he blocked that ball intentionally, despite the movement of his hand.
VAR is supposed to overturn "clear and obvious" errors, which this wasn't as evidenced by how long it took the ref to come to a conclusion. If there's sufficient doubt, referees should err on the side of not giving the penalty imo. |
#34
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Yep, he would need ninja type reactions for that to be intentional.
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When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before. |
#35
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All their attempts to simplify rules have, in fact, made them more complicated and VAR is acceptance of that and the fact that players cheat.
When I started playing, it was handball if you gained an unfair advantage. Considering a deliberate foul is supposed to be a yellow card and all handballs are now supposed to be deliberate, surely all handballs should come with a yellow card. It's all bollocks.
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#36
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Voted no penalty. Take VAR out of the equation and it would not, or should not have been given.
Interesting that the poll shows basically a 50/50 split. Just shows how difficultly it is to call. |
#37
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And therefore that it was not clear enough to award the penalty.
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#38
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Sometimes I just wish a referee would show a bit more respect for place and time; have more of a sense of agency and narrative, especially in a world cup final. I'm not saying toss a coin before the game, but I think a referee should show a different kind of common-sense; one that regards and is designed to promote the spectacle of a world cup final. He didn't do that on Sunday, and that's what I'm mostly disappointed for.
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