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  #1641  
Old 28-11-2021, 05:29 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
Not that I can read cr's posts these days, but he reminds me very much of the half-witted Jew-hating Asa Winstanley of "Electronic Infitada" infamy.
Says the person who peppers the BBS with racist jokes.
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  #1642  
Old 28-11-2021, 06:30 PM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I posted that article nearly three months ago and itís written by an Israeli human rights organisation. Maybe email them and tell them they are self hating and sickening.

I presumed you were referring to the Guardian article I just put up.
No. The Israeli human rights one. As soon as you substitute the word Jewish for Israeli how does that make a Jewish person living in London or Manchester feel?
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  #1643  
Old 28-11-2021, 07:09 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
No. The Israeli human rights one. As soon as you substitute the word Jewish for Israeli how does that make a Jewish person living in London or Manchester feel?
Email the Israeli human rights organisation and ask them.

The BJP is a Hindu nationalist/supremacy government. Saying that doesnít mean it applies to all Hindus in India let alone in the U.K.
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  #1644  
Old 28-11-2021, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Email the Israeli human rights organisation and ask them.

The BJP is a Hindu nationalist/supremacy government. Saying that doesnít mean it applies to all Hindus in India let alone in the U.K.
Jewish = Race. Hindu = Religion.

Can you really not see that the headline that you have posted twice for some reason could be seen as racist?
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  #1645  
Old 28-11-2021, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
In fact, just reading that headline is sickening.
That's a bit weird. Why would you not want to read a well written, well researched article produced by independent Jewish Israelis living in Israel and on the ground.

They are a highly respected Israeli organisation, are you anti smetic or something?
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  #1646  
Old 28-11-2021, 07:31 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Jewish = Race. Hindu = Religion.

Can you really not see that the headline that you have posted twice for some reason could be seen as racist?
Itís an Israeli human rights organisations. As said why donít you email them and tell them what they can or canít say as Jewish people.

Itís bizarre though that you think the report is aimed at all Jewish people, you clearly havenít read it.
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  #1647  
Old 28-11-2021, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Itís an Israeli human rights organisations. As said why donít you email them and tell them what they can or canít say as Jewish people.

Itís bizarre though that you think the report is aimed at all Jewish people, you clearly havenít read it.
I haven't read it.
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  #1648  
Old 28-11-2021, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
No. The Israeli human rights one. As soon as you substitute the word Jewish for Israeli how does that make a Jewish person living in London or Manchester feel?
The words 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' are not interchangeable. Indeed I believe to use them so would be against the working definition of antisemitism.

In terms purely of the language, what would you call the original apartheid - white supremacist, or South African supremacist? The latter would be very silly, since you would be including the victims of oppression as being among their own oppressors.

Saying a state is white supremacist does not mean white people everywhere, or even all white people in that country, are responsible or accountable for the situation. The same would apply here.
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  #1649  
Old 28-11-2021, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 13thsasquatch View Post
The words 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' are not interchangeable. Indeed I believe to use them so would be against the working definition of antisemitism.

In terms purely of the language, what would you call the original apartheid - white supremacist, or South African supremacist? The latter would be very silly, since you would be including the victims of oppression as being among their own oppressors.

Saying a state is white supremacist does not mean white people everywhere, or even all white people in that country, are responsible or accountable for the situation. The same would apply here.
It just sounds wrong. The adding of the word Supremacist makes all the difference. Like saying it was black people that subjugated, robbed and deported Asian people in Uganda.
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  #1650  
Old 28-11-2021, 10:27 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is online now
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
That's a bit weird. Why would you not want to read a well written, well researched article produced by independent Jewish Israelis living in Israel and on the ground.

They are a highly respected Israeli organisation, are you anti smetic or something?
Its a report that follows the pattern of many Human Rights Groups where the line between an analysis of Human Rights Abuse and Political Advocacy is crossed. Your right the group is highly respected by some This was earned by a number of reports. The move though to a more politcal advocay organisation has and is eroding that respect.

There are other individual criticisms which could be raised you will find some of them on Wiki.
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  #1651  
Old 28-11-2021, 10:59 PM
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Happy Hanukkah everyone!
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  #1652  
Old 28-11-2021, 11:02 PM
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Happy Hanukkah everyone!
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  #1653  
Old 28-11-2021, 11:23 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Interesting that this thread turns to pedantry with not a single comment about the appalling stuff in the guardian article.

Racism towards the Palestinians is just accepted.
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  #1654  
Old 29-11-2021, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Interesting that this thread turns to pedantry with not a single comment about the appalling stuff in the guardian article.

Racism towards the Palestinians is just accepted.
Looks like you are twigging CR.
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  #1655  
Old 29-11-2021, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
In fact, just reading that headline is sickening.
if thats the case your response is too especially considering you have only glanced at the title...
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  #1656  
Old 29-11-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Its a report that follows the pattern of many Human Rights Groups where the line between an analysis of Human Rights Abuse and Political Advocacy is crossed. Your right the group is highly respected by some This was earned by a number of reports. The move though to a more politcal advocay organisation has and is eroding that respect.

There are other individual criticisms which could be raised you will find some of them on Wiki.
perhaps you could point out errors in the actual article?
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  #1657  
Old 29-11-2021, 02:07 PM
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perhaps you could point out errors in the actual article?
I could but stepped away from the debates on here for various reasons. Occasionally i will comment . However if you want a differing view on the report

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  #1658  
Old 29-11-2021, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Interesting that this thread turns to pedantry with not a single comment about the appalling stuff in the guardian article.

Racism towards the Palestinians is just accepted.
Well, thereís a lot of point scoring that goes on here, and the pedantry is probably part of that. Iím admiring of your indefatigable argument-from-principle approach to be honest. I donít have your energy or belief in dialogue which probably reflects better on you than me.

Iím not sure I agree that racism against Palestinians is accepted in general (unless you mean on this thread). Globally speaking people are much more animated about the mistreatment of Palestinians than they are about the growing incidence of antisemitism (although - correct me if Iím wrong - but since Palestinians are Semitic thatís probably a misuse of language). Thatís true from university campuses and street protests to the majority of government policy across the world. That the US is an exception shouldnít obscure the overall reality.

Accusations of antisemitism are clearly being used in a few places as a stick with which to beat the left. But Iím personally unconvinced that antisemitism is more of a problem on the left than on the right. What I wonder is whether we have a relatively modern phenomenon of the far right embracing Zionism while retaining antisemitic tendencies. For example, itís clear that your average Trump supporter is pro-Israel but also very comfortable with the vein of antisemitism running through the vilification of Soros. More recently I was reading about the far right Sweden Democrats some of whom at least seem to be very pro-Israel and simultaneously to believe that Jews should not be allowed Swedish citizenship because they have divided loyalties. Speaking as a Jew itís kind of weird to see people you have long associated with antisemitism professing their love of Israel but I can see how it might make sense from their worldview. I donít think itís disingenuous although perhaps a little expedient.

I shall also lend CR my J-card and say nothing theyíve said that Iíve read (although I donít spend all day scrutinising their or anyone elseís posts) sounds at all antisemitic to me and so I donít really appreciate having an allegation that should carry weight being thrown around indiscriminately and thereby diluted. Itís a serious accusation that deserves to be reserved for those who deserve it.
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  #1659  
Old 29-11-2021, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
I could but stepped away from the debates on here for various reasons. Occasionally i will comment . However if you want a differing view on the report

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i see lots of whining about sinister agendas and slandering Israel

then there was this classic

"In truth, the Jewish state has sought for decades to extricate itself from ruling over the Palestinians."

I mean really?

come on again no realy examples of errors. The only item could be Gaza but Israel likes to claim it doesn't control it.

apart from land sea and air boarders
power supply etc. etc,
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  #1660  
Old 29-11-2021, 03:27 PM
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i see lots of whining about sinister agendas and slandering Israel

then there was this classic

"In truth, the Jewish state has sought for decades to extricate itself from ruling over the Palestinians."

I mean really?

come on again no realy examples of errors. The only item could be Gaza but Israel likes to claim it doesn't control it.

apart from land sea and air boarders
power supply etc. etc,

I think the Jewish state actually would like to extricate itself from ruling Palestinians.

They dont wish to rule them at all. They dont hate them, they dont want to exploit them rather they are simply a massive inconvenience, they just wish they weren't there to begin with and they could get on with being a successful Jewish State and not to have to deal with the reality that it is at the expense of others.
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