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  #2081  
Old 15-04-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
We want a season where the highlights aren't only a win at man city and a cup run against a tottenham reserve side and lower league opposition.

Even some of the moments that will be presented as highlights like the wins against leicester and the away win at wolves were fairly forgettable pragmatic performances.
I have enjoyed this season, despite its frustrations. If we are going to kick on we are going to need to invest in more creativity in central midfield plus find someone to put ball in the net. If we do not, I fear we will regress next season with only one inevitable result.
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  #2082  
Old 15-04-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trilby View Post
I totally get that bud and agree it can be dull at times, but I don't really know what the alternative is. So many teams in the last few years have tried to go more gung-ho and fallen foul to how savage this league is. Remember when Stoke employed Mark Hughes to move on from their dull reputation? How long did that last until they were relegated?

In an ideal world of course we'd be playing great stuff and comfortably mid table (and we have at times, tail end of last season for example) but this isn't an ideal world.
And this is the crux of it.
I have no issue with Roy and he's done a great job, but there is no real alternative and with our finances the way they are i expect him to be here next season.
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  #2083  
Old 15-04-2019, 02:05 PM
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I don't know if I really want gung-ho. Modern football is about control, and having flair players who make the difference on top of that. We need to sign some better players if we can, but whoever does take over from Roy will take over a very solid base and that does mean we will have much better options than every other time we've had to replace a manager in this division.
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  #2084  
Old 15-04-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Yogya View Post
I have enjoyed this season, despite its frustrations. If we are going to kick on we are going to need to invest in more creativity in central midfield plus find someone to put ball in the net. If we do not, I fear we will regress next season with only one inevitable result.
I donít want gung ho either and I think we show against the likes of spurs and Man City when they press us so high up the pitch and our passing falls apart just how much we miss cabaye. I love both Luka and kouyate but they arenít great passers of the ball under pressure.
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  #2085  
Old 15-04-2019, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
We want a season where the highlights aren't only a win at man city and a cup run against a tottenham reserve side and lower league opposition.

Even some of the moments that will be presented as highlights like the wins against leicester and the away win at wolves were fairly forgettable pragmatic performances.
I quite enjoyed watching Palace score four goals at Leicester but maybe that's just me.
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  #2086  
Old 15-04-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Trilby View Post
I quite enjoyed watching Palace score four goals at Leicester but maybe that's just me.
Away goals/performances don't count when evaluating this season and Hodgson. Didn't you know?
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  #2087  
Old 15-04-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
Let's be kind and assume we are not a million miles off wolves, west ham, watford, bornemouth and leicester in terms of squad strength and what the fanbase can reasonably hope for?

Perhaps incorrectly I look at all those and think they have entertained their supporters, one way or another, more than our team has. Perhaps this is being a little spoilt but we have achieved less with a far more pragmatic negative approach than those teams have used.
Last year everyone was saying the same thing about Burnley, and how it was a travesty that they were so far above where we were as a club. Sometimes teams just do better than us over 38 games.
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  #2088  
Old 15-04-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
I donít want gung ho either and I think we show against the likes of spurs and Man City when they press us so high up the pitch and our passing falls apart just how much we miss cabaye. I love both Luka and kouyate but they arenít great passers of the ball under pressure.
Cabaye, and Sakho.
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  #2089  
Old 15-04-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Trilby View Post
I quite enjoyed watching Palace score four goals at Leicester but maybe that's just me.
Of course. It wasnít an amazing performance overall though. Flattered by the score. Of course we only consider the performance over the result after a toothless home failure.
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  #2090  
Old 15-04-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
Away goals/performances don't count when evaluating this season and Hodgson. Didn't you know?
This is part of what I have an issue with. The people who are overly offended by Roy receiving any criticism will mainly refer to the improvement in away form this season and brush over the decline in home form this season.

The people who want Roy sacked will generally refer to the decline in home form and brush over the improvement in away form.

The truth is somewhere in the middle and ultimately we'll finish in around about the same position we did last season, which most of us were very happy with. Most realistic Palace fans will agree that Roy has done a perfectly fine job overall this season and doesn't deserve the sack.

I genuinely think the single biggest factor in any criticism he suffers is our poor home form, simply because of the far bigger number of fans' enjoyment and personal connection to the team home form affects.

If our home and away records were reversed, I think generally people would be delighted. Only the die-hard who go to every away game would be disappointed and bored with a return of four wins in 17 games and just a handful of open play goals, like many home fans currently are. But even then, they would most likely be ST-holders, safe in the knowledge they'll be able to witness more goals and positive results at home.

So whilst it's perfectly understandable and appropriate to point to improved away form in the face of those who are calling for Roy to be sacked, it's also naive to suggest that a stunning away win at Man City would have meant anywhere near as much as if we'd gotten that result at home. This season, a player who I generally find extremely frustrating to watch at home in Andros Townsend hit the single best Palace goal I've ever seen. And whilst that should be the first thing I think of when I look back on this season, I can't stop imagining how much more it would have meant to me if he'd have done it yesterday in front of my eyes, instead of on a dodgy internet stream on my PC.

So for most realistic Palace fans, it's not a case of wanting more than what we have and being unrealistic. It's a case of wanting exactly the same, just delivered closer to the home and away proportions we received it in last season, which generated no complaints, as far as I recall.

Whether Roy and the club can bridge the gap between our home and away form or whether we need to grin and bear it for time we're in the PL is another matter but I think it's perfectly understandable for people to raise it as a discussion point without being dismissed by those who don't care as much about home form.

Roy's approach of not acknowledging there's an issue at home and his brutal honesty in admitting he doesn't care whether our points come from home matches or away is understandable. But it's also understandable to expect fans who are affected by home form to not automatically give him the benefit of the doubt every time we lose or fail to score the goals at home that we score away from home.

Cheers Mateyboys,

Carlos

Last edited by CarlosTheFinger; 15-04-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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  #2091  
Old 15-04-2019, 05:37 PM
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Great post. ...shame you spoilt it with the silly sign off.
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  #2092  
Old 15-04-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTheFinger View Post
This is part of what I have an issue with. The people who are overly offended by Roy receiving any criticism will mainly refer to the improvement in away form this season and brush over the decline in home form this season.

The people who want Roy sacked will generally refer to the decline in home form and brush over the improvement in away form.

The truth is somewhere in the middle and ultimately we'll finish in around about the same position we did last season, which most of us were very happy with. Most realistic Palace fans will agree that Roy has done a perfectly fine job overall this season and doesn't deserve the sack.

I genuinely think the single biggest factor in any criticism he suffers is our poor home form, simply because of the far bigger number of fans' enjoyment and personal connection to the team home form affects.

If our home and away records were reversed, I think generally people would be delighted. Only the die-hard who go to every away game would be disappointed and bored with a return of four wins in 17 games and just a handful of open play goals, like many home fans currently are. But even then, they would most likely be ST-holders, safe in the knowledge they'll be able to witness more goals and positive results at home.

So whilst it's perfectly understandable and appropriate to point to improved away form in the face of those who are calling for Roy to be sacked, it's also naive to suggest that a stunning away win at Man City would have meant anywhere near as much as if we'd gotten that result at home. This season, a player who I generally find extremely frustrating to watch at home in Andros Townsend hit the single best Palace goal I've ever seen. And whilst that should be the first thing I think of when I look back on this season, I can't stop imagining how much more it would have meant to me if he'd have done it yesterday in front of my eyes, instead of on a dodgy internet stream on my PC.

So for most realistic Palace fans, it's not a case of wanting more than what we have and being unrealistic. It's a case of wanting exactly the same, just delivered closer to the home and away proportions we received it in last season, which generated no complaints, as far as I recall.

Whether Roy and the club can bridge the gap between our home and away form or whether we need to grin and bear it for time we're in the PL is another matter but I think it's perfectly understandable for people to raise it as a discussion point without being dismissed by those who don't care as much about home form.

Roy's approach of not acknowledging there's an issue at home and his brutal honesty in admitting he doesn't care whether our points come from home matches or away is understandable. But it's also understandable to expect fans who are affected by home form to not automatically give him the benefit of the doubt every time we lose or fail to score the goals at home that we score away from home.

Cheers Mateyboys,

Carlos
Good post. Made the same point about if results home and away were reversed myself.

Not sure those that don't go to games for whatever reason, and don't part with any money, actually understand how performances and results at home can influence opinions about the manager/ team. Quite noticeable that some of these far away fans come across as sanctimonious.
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  #2093  
Old 15-04-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Maidstoned Eagle View Post
Great post. ...shame you spoilt it with the silly sign off.
I think it adds to it as ever. Great post from a Palace fan with no agenda.

Cheers matey boys
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  #2094  
Old 15-04-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlosTheFinger View Post

I genuinely think the single biggest factor in any criticism he suffers is our poor home
Oh right, so what i'm hearing is you expect even decent home form without a proper CF for like two thirds of the season.

Thank your lucky stars we somehow had great away form, however dreadful it has been having to watch. It has been dreadful (having to watch at home) but we know exactly why don't we?
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  #2095  
Old 15-04-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Oli28 View Post
Last year everyone was saying the same thing about Burnley.
I have genuinely never envied them. I think they have always played nasty football even last season. Boring to watch.
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  #2096  
Old 15-04-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTheFinger View Post
This is part of what I have an issue with. The people who are overly offended by Roy receiving any criticism will mainly refer to the improvement in away form this season and brush over the decline in home form this season.

The people who want Roy sacked will generally refer to the decline in home form and brush over the improvement in away form.

The truth is somewhere in the middle and ultimately we'll finish in around about the same position we did last season, which most of us were very happy with. Most realistic Palace fans will agree that Roy has done a perfectly fine job overall this season and doesn't deserve the sack.

I genuinely think the single biggest factor in any criticism he suffers is our poor home form, simply because of the far bigger number of fans' enjoyment and personal connection to the team home form affects.

If our home and away records were reversed, I think generally people would be delighted. Only the die-hard who go to every away game would be disappointed and bored with a return of four wins in 17 games and just a handful of open play goals, like many home fans currently are. But even then, they would most likely be ST-holders, safe in the knowledge they'll be able to witness more goals and positive results at home.

So whilst it's perfectly understandable and appropriate to point to improved away form in the face of those who are calling for Roy to be sacked, it's also naive to suggest that a stunning away win at Man City would have meant anywhere near as much as if we'd gotten that result at home. This season, a player who I generally find extremely frustrating to watch at home in Andros Townsend hit the single best Palace goal I've ever seen. And whilst that should be the first thing I think of when I look back on this season, I can't stop imagining how much more it would have meant to me if he'd have done it yesterday in front of my eyes, instead of on a dodgy internet stream on my PC.

So for most realistic Palace fans, it's not a case of wanting more than what we have and being unrealistic. It's a case of wanting exactly the same, just delivered closer to the home and away proportions we received it in last season, which generated no complaints, as far as I recall.

Whether Roy and the club can bridge the gap between our home and away form or whether we need to grin and bear it for time we're in the PL is another matter but I think it's perfectly understandable for people to raise it as a discussion point without being dismissed by those who don't care as much about home form.

Roy's approach of not acknowledging there's an issue at home and his brutal honesty in admitting he doesn't care whether our points come from home matches or away is understandable. But it's also understandable to expect fans who are affected by home form to not automatically give him the benefit of the doubt every time we lose or fail to score the goals at home that we score away from home.

Cheers Mateyboys,

Carlos
I am not sure it’s that simple to be honest and I think it’s the nature of away wins compared to home wins also. I go to away games (about half) and I get hd streams as good as sky sports for the rest.

Aways are satisfying but they are often built on pragmatic defending and team shape for a side like palace. At home we have had games in our time on the Prem that are a more satisfying confirmation of our dominance and superior performance. Where the likes of wilf have absolutely played teams off the pitch. They are the real pride and entertainment providers the games that make you feel like we belong in one of the best leagues in the world and aren’t just grinding it out against the stragglers.

I have never liked Hodgson as a manager, his achievements are hugely overrated and his approach to tournament football with England is about as miserable as football gets. I don’t however think he deserves the sack either. I just have no faith whatsoever in his ability to do anything beyond what he currently is. It’s what he does. I look around the league at those “around us” and currently feel a little envious.

It's a shame we have, after 6 seasons in the prem (a great achievement in itself). Not been able to place ourselves in the position where by a Hodgson bore fest is not a necessary evil.
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  #2097  
Old 15-04-2019, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosTheFinger View Post
This is part of what I have an issue with. The people who are overly offended by Roy receiving any criticism will mainly refer to the improvement in away form this season and brush over the decline in home form this season.

The people who want Roy sacked will generally refer to the decline in home form and brush over the improvement in away form.

The truth is somewhere in the middle and ultimately we'll finish in around about the same position we did last season, which most of us were very happy with. Most realistic Palace fans will agree that Roy has done a perfectly fine job overall this season and doesn't deserve the sack.

I genuinely think the single biggest factor in any criticism he suffers is our poor home form, simply because of the far bigger number of fans' enjoyment and personal connection to the team home form affects.

If our home and away records were reversed, I think generally people would be delighted. Only the die-hard who go to every away game would be disappointed and bored with a return of four wins in 17 games and just a handful of open play goals, like many home fans currently are. But even then, they would most likely be ST-holders, safe in the knowledge they'll be able to witness more goals and positive results at home.

So whilst it's perfectly understandable and appropriate to point to improved away form in the face of those who are calling for Roy to be sacked, it's also naive to suggest that a stunning away win at Man City would have meant anywhere near as much as if we'd gotten that result at home. This season, a player who I generally find extremely frustrating to watch at home in Andros Townsend hit the single best Palace goal I've ever seen. And whilst that should be the first thing I think of when I look back on this season, I can't stop imagining how much more it would have meant to me if he'd have done it yesterday in front of my eyes, instead of on a dodgy internet stream on my PC.

So for most realistic Palace fans, it's not a case of wanting more than what we have and being unrealistic. It's a case of wanting exactly the same, just delivered closer to the home and away proportions we received it in last season, which generated no complaints, as far as I recall.

Whether Roy and the club can bridge the gap between our home and away form or whether we need to grin and bear it for time we're in the PL is another matter but I think it's perfectly understandable for people to raise it as a discussion point without being dismissed by those who don't care as much about home form.

Roy's approach of not acknowledging there's an issue at home and his brutal honesty in admitting he doesn't care whether our points come from home matches or away is understandable. But it's also understandable to expect fans who are affected by home form to not automatically give him the benefit of the doubt every time we lose or fail to score the goals at home that we score away from home.

Cheers Mateyboys,

Carlos
Can't dispute much of that. Nicely put bud and thanks for the respectful response.
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  #2098  
Old 15-04-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Pub Idol View Post
I think it adds to it as ever. Great post from a Palace fan with no agenda.

Cheers matey boys
Too right
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Old 16-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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Old 16-04-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeping Giant View Post
Oh right, so what i'm hearing is you expect even decent home form without a proper CF for like two thirds of the season.

Thank your lucky stars we somehow had great away form, however dreadful it has been having to watch. It has been dreadful (having to watch at home) but we know exactly why don't we?
Not quite. If we'd had a proper CF last season scoring lots of goals at home and then he left and we suddenly had poor home form this season, there wouldn't be much debate around the reasons why we're worse at home. However, that's not the case. We mainly played without a proper CF last season under Roy and still scored 29 goals at Selhurst compared to 14 (so far) this season, had a better home record than away and scored nearly twice the goals at home that we did away i.e. the reverse of this season.

Therefore the reasons why we have scored so few at home compared to last season (despite having no proper CF in either season) are too nuanced and open to interpretation for a simple irrefutable explanation, hence all the continued debate and wild theories around the true impact of RLC, Cabaye, Steven Reid, the HF drum, Susanna Reid etc. etc.
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