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  #361  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle View Post
How many people dying for their political beliefs or doing hard labour in the salt mines would upset your sensitivities? And you worry yourselves silly about Farage
The point















You.

And I’m not even sure if I’ve ever directly posted about Farage on the BBS. The bloke is too insignificant for me to care. Merely part of a far larger problem.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 12-06-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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  #362  
Old 13-06-2019, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
The point















You.

And Iím not even sure if Iíve ever directly posted about Farage on the BBS. The bloke is too insignificant for me to care. Merely part of a far larger problem.

he iron curtain. Itís easy and frankly impossible not to condemn the brutal actions of the Soviet Union now, but pre 90s, knowledge was far more blurry and harder to verify. Not an excuse, as obviously people did hear about tanks rolling into Prague for example, but a factor to consider. No one knew about the death toll in gulags back in the 70s.



You glossing over the amount of deaths and improsonments suffered by people under the old Soviet regime. If I interpret that paragraph above correctly. When Farage is tagged as a mass murderer you might be able to make a fair comparison
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  #363  
Old 14-06-2019, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle View Post
he iron curtain. It’s easy and frankly impossible not to condemn the brutal actions of the Soviet Union now, but pre 90s, knowledge was far more blurry and harder to verify. Not an excuse, as obviously people did hear about tanks rolling into Prague for example, but a factor to consider. No one knew about the death toll in gulags back in the 70s.



You glossing over the amount of deaths and improsonments suffered by people under the old Soviet regime. If I interpret that paragraph above correctly. When Farage is tagged as a mass murderer you might be able to make a fair comparison
That’s not glossing over anything, it’s literally telling a historical fact. Until the Berlin Wall fell, the full extent of the Soviet Union’s atrocities wasn’t known in the West. Same even goes for facts we now know about WW2, for example, the true amount of Soviet citizens and POW’s murdered in Auschwitz. You need to get on the phone to the British educational authorities if you disagree with that, as that’s what they’re teaching in classrooms covering the Cold War and the iron curtain.

What are you on about re Farage by the way Can’t say I remember ever discussing him on the BBS, let alone mentioning him in the same breath as the Soviet Union. Weirdest strawman fallacy I’ve ever seen.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 14-06-2019 at 12:45 AM.
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  #364  
Old 14-06-2019, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Thatís not glossing over anything, itís literally telling a historical fact. Until the Berlin Wall fell, the full extent of the Soviet Unionís atrocities wasnít known in the West. Same even goes for facts we now know about WW2, for example, the true amount of Soviet citizens and POWís murdered in Auschwitz. You need to get on the phone to the British educational authorities if you disagree with that, as thatís what theyíre teaching in classrooms covering the Cold War and the iron curtain.

What are you on about re Farage by the way Canít say I remember ever discussing him on the BBS, let alone mentioning him in the same breath as the Soviet Union. Weirdest strawman fallacy Iíve ever seen.
The gulags where known as the salt mines in those days, everyone knew not necessarily the detail but we knew. Corbyn and his mates chose to buy into the propaganda.

Same for Mao and his atrocities
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  #365  
Old 14-06-2019, 07:08 AM
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I hate to agree with you, but The Gulag Archipelago was published in 1973.
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  #366  
Old 14-06-2019, 09:54 AM
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Don’t think that was ever my point. My point was purely the known death toll was nothing close to what we know it as today (not just the Gulags, the Famines too). Horrific yes, but no different in concept to things the British Empire did only 40 years before.

What was presented as a side point about the importance of historical context has been latched onto as pretty much the only thing taken from any of my posts, and frankly it’s a bit dull.
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  #367  
Old 14-06-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle View Post
How many people dying for their political beliefs or doing hard labour in the salt mines would upset your sensitivities? And you worry yourselves silly about Farage
You mean the same Farage who cosied up with the Far Right in the EU and has something of a questionable history himself in regards to UK Fascism in his youth
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  #368  
Old 14-06-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Donít think that was ever my point. My point was purely the known death toll was nothing close to what we know it as today (not just the Gulags, the Famines too). Horrific yes, but no different in concept to things the British Empire did only 40 years before.

What was presented as a side point about the importance of historical context has been latched onto as pretty much the only thing taken from any of my posts, and frankly itís a bit dull.
Valid point, Empire, soviet or otherwise and the oppression of people by the force of state (whether claiming their nationality or otherwise) is unacceptable in all its forms. The Empire / Soviets / Nazism / Communism / Fascism et al all simply represent a desire for the enslavement of others and should be resisted at every chance.

What we should be careful about is justifying one form over another, by fake equivalence. Once people are being killed by the state to maintain its political influence and their individual views - it is immediately unacceptable and indefensible.

That should include faux popularists, masquerading as the 'acceptable face' and they should be held accountable to the public for their views, whether they are in the past, or present (provided they're not imprisoned or otherwise oppressed).

If someone was a young fascist or communist, the media has a duty to hold them accountable to the public for that.
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