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  #121  
Old 18-05-2019, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
How many managers in the country do you think would have held off that title challenge by Liverpool, winning over 12 games or whatever it was on the bounce? The guy is paid 15, 20 million quid a year - why, simply because he can manage a few egos?

I wish a bang average, or even just a decent manager was put in charge of a Man City or Barcelona, to put this absurd notion that practically anybody can win with world class players to bed. Mark Hughes, David Moyes, even Roy all had quality players at their disposal at big clubs, and they all underachieved.
Or even look at Pellegrini, who I think is a better than average manager based off what he achieved at Malaga, Villarreal and Real Madrid to some extent. Compare what he achieved at Man City to what Guardiola has done so far.
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  #122  
Old 18-05-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle View Post
I dont think that is really the case, despite using the same words a(more as a retort) and a number of posts pointing out some issues with him.

Having observed a session myself (invited not spying...) and just speaking to some of the coaching staff etc. He has really changed the mindset as well as some practical issues around the structure of training, playing systems and so on. Whether he could improve on that if he stayed or if that would stay in place if he did go, I have doubts. Not sure it is failure per se, if this is an indication of progress .

Anyway, as pointed out, he doesn't hang around enough normally to find out
The goal for this season was likely promotion, so I guess in a strict sense that could be classed as a failure. However, like you allude to, he has done things to transform the club and has them challenging for promotion again for the first time in about 15 years, so that's probably seen as genuine progress. They've already stated that they want him to stay, I think, which wouldn't be the case if the season was seen as a complete failure.

I don' care if Leeds get promoted, if fact I'd probably prefer they didn't, but for the neutral, they're one of the best teams to watch. That last game vs Derby may have been the best (non-Palace) match of the season.
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  #123  
Old 18-05-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
Now ask him to take a club like Palace with a pretty dismal youth set up and around 50 million to spend over two years, with a hugely reduced wage budget and I honestly don't think he'd be able to achieve any more than Hodgson has done. There are quite a few decent managers about and he falls into that category, as does ours.
If this is the case, and Pep and Roy (as much as I love Roy) are comparable in terms of managing ability, why is Pep managing Manchester City and Roy managing Crystal Palace?

Man City, Bayern and Barcelona compared to us, Liverpool and Fulham. Are these big clubs really that clueless, where they're paying someone 20 million a year, when they could get the same result from paying Roy much, much less?

Sean Dyche has gotten Burnley promoted twice, kept them in the league for several years, reached Europe with a very average squad and a comparatively meagre budget. Do these achievements suggest to you that he'd do a good job of managing Real Madrid?
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  #124  
Old 18-05-2019, 02:57 PM
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Wrong forum.


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  #125  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
How many managers in the country do you think would have held off that title challenge by Liverpool, winning over 12 games or whatever it was on the bounce? The guy is paid 15, 20 million quid a year - why, simply because he can manage a few egos?

I wish a bang average, or even just a decent manager was put in charge of a Man City or Barcelona, to put this absurd notion that practically anybody can win with world class players to bed. Mark Hughes, David Moyes, even Roy all had quality players at their disposal at big clubs, and they all underachieved.
Manchester City were able to hold off that challenge in part due to the fact that they could replace De Bruyne with Bernardo Silva. They could leave Sane on the bench and play Mahrez. They have a good enough squad to be able to field two teams in the Premier League and pretty much guarantee two top 6 (probably top 4) places. Their title challengers this year could not say the same. Hughes didn't have that squad, Moyes didn't either. The expectation on both of them both was such that winning nothing was always going to be considered underachieving. Guardiola has yet to win the Champions League with his squad, despite that being the club's main objective. Has he not therefore underachieved? If you think Roy has underachieved at Palace, you really should have a look at our trophy cabinet and consider that statement in light of our club's history of over-achievement.
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  #126  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post

Sean Dyche has gotten Burnley promoted twice, kept them in the league for several years, reached Europe with a very average squad and a comparatively meagre budget. Do these achievements suggest to you that he'd do a good job of managing Real Madrid?
Not at all. Do you naturally assume that Guardiola would be able to better Dyche's achievements if put in charge of Burnley - same squad and budget?

A couple of posters have already made the point that you cannot compare the two. It's horses for courses in many respects. I repeat, I consider Guardiola is a good manager. I do not deny his successes. However, I will not fawn over him because in my opinion, he has had advantages to help him achieve that success which other good managers will never have.
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  #127  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:17 PM
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BTW, this really is in the wrong forum!
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  #128  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
Manchester City were able to hold off that challenge in part due to the fact that they could replace De Bruyne with Bernardo Silva. They could leave Sane on the bench and play Mahrez. They have a good enough squad to be able to field two teams in the Premier League and pretty much guarantee two top 6 (probably top 4) places. Their title challengers this year could not say the same. Hughes didn't have that squad, Moyes didn't either. The expectation on both of them both was such that winning nothing was always going to be considered underachieving. Guardiola has yet to win the Champions League with his squad, despite that being the club's main objective. Has he not therefore underachieved? If you think Roy has underachieved at Palace, you really should have a look at our trophy cabinet and consider that statement in light of our club's history of over-achievement.
Roy hasn't underachieved here, he underachieved at Liverpool.
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  #129  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
Roy hasn't underachieved here, he underachieved at Liverpool.
I never doubted your sense of realism. Honestly!
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  #130  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by palacemetros View Post
Not at all. Do you naturally assume that Guardiola would be able to better Dyche's achievements if put in charge of Burnley - same squad and budget?

A couple of posters have already made the point that you cannot compare the two. It's horses for courses in many respects. I repeat, I consider Guardiola is a good manager. I do not deny his successes. However, I will not fawn over him because in my opinion, he has had advantages to help him achieve that success which other good managers will never have.
Like players, the managers competing at the top of the league are rightly considered the best. Pep, Klopp, Pochettino, etc. Those who are winning or have won things.

I'm sure there are players in the Championship suited to that level who could perform better over the course of a season than certain top-6 players, but that doesn't suggest they're better. Or like somebody pointed out, Warnock might be a better bet to get a squad of cloggers promoted, but again, that doesn't mean he's in any way comparable because he definitely, definitely can't cut it at the top of the game, which surely is the goal of any professional manager. If Warnock, Roy, Dyche or whoever could perform at that level, even with players like De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero at their disposal, they would be.
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  #131  
Old 18-05-2019, 03:35 PM
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I never doubted your sense of realism. Honestly!
Until Roy wins the Zenith Data Systems Cup, he'll always be an underachiever
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  #132  
Old 18-05-2019, 04:16 PM
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  #133  
Old 18-05-2019, 07:08 PM
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He would stay for about 6 months
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  #134  
Old 18-05-2019, 09:42 PM
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He would stay for about 6 months
To be fair that would be a lot longer than our last foreign manager.
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  #135  
Old 19-05-2019, 02:48 AM
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  #136  
Old 19-05-2019, 04:56 AM
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Guardiola tactically exposed by poch and never won champions league with Bayern.

Hes a fraud.
This thread is becoming a bit troll-tastic.
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  #137  
Old 19-05-2019, 05:51 AM
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  #138  
Old 19-05-2019, 06:10 AM
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Da Nuge as Player Manager please - we can do a cash plus tommy black and jon Macken deal i'm sure
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  #139  
Old 19-05-2019, 06:36 AM
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  #140  
Old 19-05-2019, 05:09 PM
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Don't trust Bielsa. Seems a bit shifty to me.
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