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  #33101  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
What the actual feck are you on about ? Its out there for all to see, very well documented, filmed for posterity, and commented on since Corbyn and his chums arrived and facilitated this lurch to the left, its what you are . You cant be serious if you don't consider macdonnell far left, he is a self confessed marxist and proud of it. The labour party have become extreme , of that there is no doubt. You will have to find Find another more plausible excuse for becoming intolerant, and hateful. This one is too funny for words.
I'm not particularly intolerant or hateful. And no they are not far left. Nothing about the Labour manifesto in 2017 could be considered far left. Most of it is just about left of centre. But you can't expect to accuse people of supporting terrorism and them not react to those insults. How would you react if I accused you of supporting terrorists 100 times on this thread without an ounce of truth to back it up?
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  #33102  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Corbyn appointed Andrew Murray. In what way is he not extreme left? He was CPGB/CPB for 30 years, only leaving them to work as Corbyn's advisor.
I don't support the appointment of Andrew Murray. I don't understand your point.
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  #33103  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:21 PM
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I don't support the appointment of Andrew Murray. I don't understand your point.
How about Seamus Milne?
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  #33104  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
How about Seamus Milne?
I can't stand Seamus Milne either. I think there are a number of us on here who have come to an agreement that Corbyn's selection of advisers is poor to put it mildly.
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  #33105  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I can't stand Seamus Milne either. I think there are a number of us on here who have come to an agreement that Corbyn's selection of advisers is poor to put it mildly.
Karie Murphy? Schneider?
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  #33106  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:26 PM
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Btw these advisers are driving Corbyn’s position on near enough everything
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  #33107  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I don't support the appointment of Andrew Murray. I don't understand your point.
You were complaining about calling people Marxists, extreme left, etc.

Is it ok to call hand picked Corbyn advisor and 30 year Communist party member Andrew Murray extreme left? How about his daughter?

Can we call hand picked Corbyn advisor Milne extreme left? Or all the others highlighted by Adlerhorst?

If Corbyn hand picked a load of extreme left advisors, can we safely say he's extreme left? If not, why not?
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  #33108  
Old 13-08-2019, 07:36 PM
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If not, why not?
It upsets the cultists.
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  #33109  
Old 13-08-2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
I'm not particularly intolerant or hateful. And no they are not far left. Nothing about the Labour manifesto in 2017 could be considered far left. Most of it is just about left of centre. But you can't expect to accuse people of supporting terrorism and them not react to those insults. How would you react if I accused you of supporting terrorists 100 times on this thread without an ounce of truth to back it up?
If you saw me in press reports cosying up to terrorists id expect to cop the backlash . im not linking anything for you,do it yourself, there is plenty of evidence out there . As for your denial of labour not being far left , i cant decide if you are trolling , or blind .
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  #33110  
Old 13-08-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
How would you react if I accused you of supporting terrorists 100 times on this thread without an ounce of truth to back it up?
An ounce of truth? Calling Hezbollah friends is probably a few pounds at least.
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  #33111  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:30 PM
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How would you react if I accused you of supporting terrorists 100 times on this thread without an ounce of truth to back it up?
There's a tonne of truth to back it up. The man said Hamas were dedicated to "bringing about long term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region" and said that the British government's labelling of Hamas as a terrorist organisation is "a big, big historical mistake".

That is support for Hamas. Either you think Hamas are not terrorists, or Corbyn supports, or supported, terrorists. You can't have it both ways.
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  #33112  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
There's a tonne of truth to back it up. The man said Hamas were dedicated to "bringing about long term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region" and said that the British government's labelling of Hamas as a terrorist organisation is "a big, big historical mistake".

That is support for Hamas. Either you think Hamas are not terrorists, or Corbyn supports, or supported, terrorists. You can't have it both ways.
Tbf you could have said the same about Yasser arafat 25 years ago. One mans terrorist.
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  #33113  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:55 PM
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Tbf you could have said the same about Yasser arafat 25 years ago. One mans terrorist.
Yes - as I said above, if you don't think Hamas are terrorists then yes, you can say that his support for Hamas is not evidence of him being a terrorist supporter.

But arguing Hamas don't count as terrorists is a different argument to saying that there is no evidence that he has supported a group that very many people would consider to be terrorists.
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  #33114  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
Yes - as I said above, if you don't think Hamas are terrorists then yes, you can say that his support for Hamas is not evidence of him being a terrorist supporter.

But arguing Hamas don't count as terrorists is a different argument to saying that there is no evidence that he has supported a group that very many people would consider to be terrorists.
I am not into the religious bullshit, but politically I can fully understand the position of Fatah and Hamas.
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  #33115  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:20 PM
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I am not into the religious bullshit, but politically I can fully understand the position of Fatah and Hamas.
What does that mean exactly? Have you read the Hamas Charter?

Do you think that they are not terrorists? Or do you think that they are terrorists, but it's justifiable?

Regardless, arguing Hamas are good ol' boys is different to saying that Corbyn has been smeared with untruths.
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  #33116  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:38 PM
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I don't read Arabic, but I do understand why Hamas came into being, and why they want to have their own state.

Of course before Hamas, Fatah (the political wing of the PLO) were the terrorists, now they are kind of OK it seems, because there is a new bogeyman.

Yes, yes I know you are dieing to throw the 'they don't recognise the state of Israel' line into the mix, but the power balance is so one sided. I would say how about Israel recognises the right of a Palestinian state to exist, and then they might have more of a point.
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  #33117  
Old 14-08-2019, 05:42 AM
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Thread page count up, someone must have dared question the glorious leader.
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  #33118  
Old 14-08-2019, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I don't read Arabic, but I do understand why Hamas came into being, and why they want to have their own state.
Most right-thinking people understand why they want to have their own state, and support that. A group's political aims doesn't make them terrorists, it's how they try to achieve those aims.

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Yes, yes I know you are dieing to throw the 'they don't recognise the state of Israel' line into the mix, but the power balance is so one sided. I would say how about Israel recognises the right of a Palestinian state to exist, and then they might have more of a point.
Umm, the fact that Hamas doesn't recognise the state of Israel is fairly low down on my list of criticisms of them, and doesn't in and of itself make them terrorists.

The rocket attacks on civilians, the use of children as human shields, suicide bombings etc are what make them terrorists.

Now of course Israel has done some terrible things, but that doesn't stop Hamas from being terrorists.
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Last edited by se1eagle; 14-08-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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  #33119  
Old 14-08-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I don't read Arabic, but I do understand why Hamas came into being, and why they want to have their own state.

Of course before Hamas, Fatah (the political wing of the PLO) were the terrorists, now they are kind of OK it seems, because there is a new bogeyman.

Yes, yes I know you are dieing to throw the 'they don't recognise the state of Israel' line into the mix, but the power balance is so one sided. I would say how about Israel recognises the right of a Palestinian state to exist, and then they might have more of a point.
My objection to Hamas is that they are virulent anti -semites whose vision of society is one where sharia rules with the consequent different civic rights for others such as christians, druze and jews.

This contrasts with their bitter enemy Fatah's vision of a secular democratic Palestine.

The Hamas charter talks in terms of the Jews collectively being responsible for the French revolution and both world wars.Out there bonkers stuff.

In terms of JC, any person claiming to be anti discrimination and knowledgeable about the Middle East who describes Hamas as my 'friends' deserves everything they get unless it is now acceptable in 'progressive' (actually reactionary)circles to align oneself (whether internationally or within the UK) with anti semites and discriminators so long as they say they are anti-zionist....

Last edited by legaleagle2; 14-08-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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  #33120  
Old 14-08-2019, 11:50 AM
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I am no supporter of Hamas, religious extremism is ridiculous, but I do understand why Hamas came in to being, and why they want their own state.

There is a path that goes, illegal occupation, ethnic protest, followed by reasonable ethnic opposition, followed by violent ethnic opposition, followed by religious takeover opposition.

When there is no reasonable alternative people in extremis always turn to 'God' to provide a solution/comfort. The same happens in prison.
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