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  #141  
Old 13-08-2019, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I remember this as being the norm. The reason (I always maybe incorrectly assumed) is that said blokes had a) transport that wasn't a bicycle b) income and c) could buy drinks in a pub legally.


How could we compete with all of that?
Rule of thumb. Woman go for status, men for looks. A wild generalisation but mostly true from what Ive seen of the world. Older boys have more status than younger boys.
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  #142  
Old 13-08-2019, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
Rule of thumb. Woman go for status, men for looks. A wild generalisation but mostly true from what Ive seen of the world. Older boys have more status than younger boys.
To tie this to the thread subject, it might well be true that if you are used to being pursued by groupies it might be hard to tell the difference between a teenager who wants to score a high status shag, and a trafficked teenager. Depending upon the circumstances.

But it's a bit dangerous to assume ALL girls/women are after status and ALL boys/men go for looks (I know you have already said it's a wild generalisation).

If you make that assumption you risk assuming consent where none exists (?)
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  #143  
Old 13-08-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TAK View Post
I think he was talking about NickP....

Obviously after a hundred posts the thread has gone off topic.
Yehp, lets get it bang right back on target, Johanna Sjoberg was definitely born in 1978. The alleged incident happened in 2001. Do the math, for her to have been 17 the incident would have had to have happened in 1995....15 years after the obvious very liberal times of the mid 60's through to what seems to be the early 80's

I honestly dont think I've seen a more similar environment to Mccarthyism and the way allegations tainted peoples beliefs and twisted facts and ruined lives just on the fact they had the stick pointed at them. To even raise a question mark gives the potential to be labelled a nonce excuser.
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  #144  
Old 13-08-2019, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
Yehp, lets get it bang right back on target, Johanna Sjoberg was definitely born in 1978. The alleged incident happened in 2001. Do the math, for her to have been 17 the incident would have had to have happened in 1995....15 years after the obvious very liberal times of the mid 60's through to what seems to be the early 80's

I honestly dont think I've seen a more similar environment to Mccarthyism and the way allegations tainted peoples beliefs and twisted facts and ruined lives just on the fact they had the stick pointed at them. To even raise a question mark gives the potential to be labelled a nonce excuser.
I think you're getting your alleged victims of Prince Andrew confused.

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Virginia Roberts, 17 in 2001.
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  #145  
Old 13-08-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
I think you're getting your alleged victims of Prince Andrew confused.

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Virginia Roberts, 17 in 2001.
I'm responding to the quotes about the Breast Touching as in here.

“I just remember someone suggesting a photo, and they told us to go get on the couch. And so Andrew and Virginia sat on the couch, and they put the puppet, the puppet on her lap. And so then I sat on Andrew’s lap, and I believe on my own volition, and they took the puppet’s hands and put it on Virginia’s breast, and so Andrew put his on mine,” said Sjoberg according to the court document.
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  #146  
Old 13-08-2019, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
It does seem a very different world back then to now when you really think about it,
You'd think. I was looking through the crime stats for the 1960s / 1970s / 1980s and 1990 (only to 1998) and they paint a very different story.

Rates of Recorded Crime for unlawful sexual intercourse, with a girl under 16, were much higher in the 1960s and 70s (between 3-5000 a year) and tailed off through the 80s, 2-3000 a year into a low in the 90s (approx 1-2,000 per year). These aren't adjusted for population growth.

So whilst it might see like the idea of underage sex with girls was tolerated more back then, than now, it certainly doesn't seem to be the case - with far more incidents being reported to, and recorded by the police. In fact the 60s and 70s are the highest points in terms of unlawful sexual intercourse in recorded crime stats (high points in the 60s hit the 5k mark, which is the highest in recorded history).

So it does seem that the 'blind eye' back then isn't a simple truth. Reported cases were at their highest in history. There was also a big spike in the reporting of other sex crimes against women.

So it might well be much more that we've been led to believe that was the case that it was more 'ok' than possibly realising that the police and authorities were basically well aware of what was going on, and just didn't give a s**t - which seems to fit with the normality of these things.


Incidently, I happen to have these details because I'm studying Criminology and Psychology at the OU.
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  #147  
Old 13-08-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
I'm responding to the quotes about the Breast Touching as in here.

“I just remember someone suggesting a photo, and they told us to go get on the couch. And so Andrew and Virginia sat on the couch, and they put the puppet, the puppet on her lap. And so then I sat on Andrew’s lap, and I believe on my own volition, and they took the puppet’s hands and put it on Virginia’s breast, and so Andrew put his on mine,” said Sjoberg according to the court document.
Thats inappropriate behaviour, based on the context of the accusation. Whether it amounts to a public interest for prosecution seems flimsy. Unless its a part of a history of repeated offences, it doesn't strike me as something too serious, within the context. The kind of thing people should be cautioned for a first offence - and only if they persist in that kind of behaviour should see serious prosecution.

Wrong, but not witch hunty wrong.

Having said that, I was in a weirdly similar situation, but involving stickers, booze and boobs (rather than puppets and posh sofas). Difference I guess though is I asked the woman in question, whether it was ok. She said yes, and so it goes.

Last edited by dogstar721; 13-08-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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  #148  
Old 13-08-2019, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
You'd think. I was looking through the crime stats for the 1960s / 1970s / 1980s and 1990 (only to 1998) and they paint a very different story.

Rates of Recorded Crime for unlawful sexual intercourse, with a girl under 16, were much higher in the 1960s and 70s (between 3-5000 a year) and tailed off through the 80s, 2-3000 a year into a low in the 90s (approx 1-2,000 per year). These aren't adjusted for population growth.

So whilst it might see like the idea of underage sex with girls was tolerated more back then, than now, it certainly doesn't seem to be the case - with far more incidents being reported to, and recorded by the police. In fact the 60s and 70s are the highest points in terms of unlawful sexual intercourse in recorded crime stats (high points in the 60s hit the 5k mark, which is the highest in recorded history).

So it does seem that the 'blind eye' back then isn't a simple truth. Reported cases were at their highest in history. There was also a big spike in the reporting of other sex crimes against women.

So it might well be much more that we've been led to believe that was the case that it was more 'ok' than possibly realising that the police and authorities were basically well aware of what was going on, and just didn't give a s**t - which seems to fit with the normality of these things.


Incidently, I happen to have these details because I'm studying Criminology and Psychology at the OU.
May well have been but as has been shown on here and most probably with most crimes people see it around them and for every one thats caught there may be 5 thats not.
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  #149  
Old 13-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
To tie this to the thread subject, it might well be true that if you are used to being pursued by groupies it might be hard to tell the difference between a teenager who wants to score a high status shag, and a trafficked teenager. Depending upon the circumstances.

But it's a bit dangerous to assume ALL girls/women are after status and ALL boys/men go for looks (I know you have already said it's a wild generalisation).

If you make that assumption you risk assuming consent where none exists (?)
It was a tangent off what Maz said about girls growing up. It’s odd and unnecessary to link it back to the sexual assaults when that is very clear.
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  #150  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:14 PM
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It was a tangent off what Maz said about girls growing up. It’s odd and unnecessary to link it back to the sexual assaults when that is very clear.
Odd and unnecessary?
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  #151  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:15 PM
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Lol. I got you, although it was a VAST generalisation!
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  #152  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:16 PM
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Odd and unnecessary?
(almost a definition of the whole forum really)
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  #153  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ozzieEagle View Post
I honestly dont think I've seen a more similar environment to Mccarthyism and the way allegations tainted peoples beliefs and twisted facts and ruined lives just on the fact they had the stick pointed at them. To even raise a question mark gives the potential to be labelled a nonce excuser.
To compare what is going on about bringing abuse in to the public eye to the political witch hunt of McCarthyism is bizarre to me. Indeed the much bigger problem is that most rapists, child abusers and those carrying out sexual assaults get away with. Indeed the vast majority do. This is often backed by institutional failures, some incompetence and some far more insidious.

Going back to what this thread is about it again seems strange to talk about McCarthyism when Epstein, a man who was a child abuser on a scale similar to that of Jimmy Saville, was given a deal where he barely served any prison time, and then was allowed to carry on with the abuse despite being on the sex offenders list.

Prince Andrew, whose lifestyle is paid for by the tax payer, was very good friends with Epstein even after the convictions and now further allegations have come out. The very fact that he saw fit to have a life style that involved partying with a serial child abuser surely brings in to question why he continues to get tax payers money.

So far from McCarthyism, it's actually total scum being able to get away with their crimes, and a prominent member of the royal family socialising with them and taking money off them.
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  #154  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:34 PM
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(almost a definition of the whole forum really)
Hope this helps

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  #155  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:35 PM
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May well have been but as has been shown on here and most probably with most crimes people see it around them and for every one thats caught there may be 5 thats not.
The point here is that actually back in the 60s or 70s, people were not as blaise as people seem to think. People were far more likely to report cases of unlawful sexual intercourse with a girl under 16.

These are cases that are reported to the police. They're five times higher in the 60s at points, than in the 1990s (despite the population of the 90s being far far higher).

Unlawful sexual intercourse with an under 16 year old girl, was more likely to be reported to the police then, than now (in excess of five times more likely). So clearly quite a lot of people took unlawful sexual intercourse seriously.
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  #156  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
To compare what is going on about bringing abuse in to the public eye to the political witch hunt of McCarthyism is bizarre to me. Indeed the much bigger problem is that most rapists, child abusers and those carrying out sexual assaults get away with. Indeed the vast majority do. This is often backed by institutional failures, some incompetence and some far more insidious.

Going back to what this thread is about it again seems strange to talk about McCarthyism when Epstein, a man who was a child abuser on a scale similar to that of Jimmy Saville, was given a deal where he barely served any prison time, and then was allowed to carry on with the abuse despite being on the sex offenders list.

Prince Andrew, whose lifestyle is paid for by the tax payer, was very good friends with Epstein even after the convictions and now further allegations have come out. The very fact that he saw fit to have a life style that involved partying with a serial child abuser surely brings in to question why he continues to get tax payers money.

So far from McCarthyism, it's actually total scum being able to get away with their crimes, and a prominent member of the royal family socialising with them and taking money off them.
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  #157  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
Rule of thumb. Woman go for status, men for looks. A wild generalisation but mostly true from what Ive seen of the world. Older boys have more status than younger boys.
Kind of mysogenistic, most women an attraction to maturity in males - which tallies with the fact that emotionally and intellectually young women mature faster than young males.

Rule of thumb, attraction is actually very complex phenomena, involving biological, neurological, social and psychological aspects
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  #158  
Old 13-08-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The point here is that actually back in the 60s or 70s, people were not as blaise as people seem to think. People were far more likely to report cases of unlawful sexual intercourse with a girl under 16.

These are cases that are reported to the police. They're five times higher in the 60s at points, than in the 1990s (despite the population of the 90s being far far higher).

Unlawful sexual intercourse with an under 16 year old girl, was more likely to be reported to the police then, than now (in excess of five times more likely). So clearly quite a lot of people took unlawful sexual intercourse seriously.
Is it not worth considering, and based on what alot of people on those eras have alluded to on this thread, that it happened far more often?

It's correct to say reported cases were up to in excess of 5 times higher, but that could simply be that it happened in excess of 5 times more often, and to that extent, 5 times more people also turned a blind eye?
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Old 13-08-2019, 12:45 PM
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It is not illegal for 18 year old to date a 15 year old. It is illegal for them to have sex.

However I agree that that is a different thread really to here. What did or did not happen should be investigated but to claim that Prince Andrew must be guilty (as some people are effectively doing) because he had a friend who was a nonce and one allegation smacks of an agenda . And heaven knows I am no royalist but I do believe in due process and not trial by social media.
Its illegal of the 18 year old to have sex, not the 15 year old. The emphasis of law is that adults are responsible for their decisions and actions.

All the 'its a different world then / now" is just another variation of 'they were asking for it' if you ask me.

Its astonishing how many different justifications people, mostly men, will come up with to protect sex offending.
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Old 13-08-2019, 12:56 PM
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All the 'its a different world then / now" is just another variation of 'they were asking for it' if you ask me.

Its astonishing how many different justifications people, mostly men, will come up with to protect sex offending.
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