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  #81  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:34 AM
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Anyone who bases their arguement on national sovereignty is living in the past. The nation state is dying, destoyed by globalisation and the overwhelming power of transnational corporations. The only way to oppose this shift in world power is to give influence to transnational democratic institutions.
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  #82  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
You just proved my point
Not really I've proved the point how important we are and why on earth should Brussels interfere with our laws? And way we run the nation. Every country no matter how big or small should have right to govern their country.
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  #83  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
I do love the way many of the UK public seem to think Europe needs us and they are desperate for us to stay in , Typical stupid british superior complex coming into play I think .
excellent post 100 % correct
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  #84  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:38 AM
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averity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
crazy to think we let people so far away with no insight choose our laws and legislation, if france looked after there borders better then we would have far less imigration, they just send them back of the forcort to jump in another lorry! as they dont want them messing france up! think it will benefit the pound leaving the euro so on that basis i am all for it. About time we worried about our own country and not everybody elses, and in that i incluse scotland. cant help that feel its like the girlfriend situation, when you always think the grass is greener on the other side and it turns out not to be, but let scotland find out the hard way
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  #85  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:39 AM
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averity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
the euro does need us as we have one of the biggest banking industries in the world
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  #86  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Kneevil View Post
Bloody hell, Matov. Of all people, I hadn't suspected you of an inferiority complex.
And pray tell, in context of my post, why I have an 'inferiority complex' ?
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  #87  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:40 AM
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averity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietaverity came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
anyone who thinks we as a country are not major players, are the ones with therehead in the clowds
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  #88  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
Anyone who bases their arguement on national sovereignty is living in the past. The nation state is dying, destoyed by globalisation and the overwhelming power of transnational corporations. The only way to oppose this shift in world power is to give influence to transnational democratic institutions.
Now that is a fair point. But does the EU actually oppose this ? Or does it merely help facilitate it ?
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  #89  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:42 AM
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It'll be quite fun watching Cameron have to lead the 'In' campaign and getting in the neck from his backbenchers. The rest is going to be pretty dull.

It'd be nice if it lead to a proper examination of where we are at as a country and our place in Europe but it won't. It'll be loads of blabbering about immigration and men in suits talking about the importance of exports.
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  #90  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Lol not really it's comes from fact we're 2nd most influential power after the Germans .
really within the EU isn't that position taken by France?
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  #91  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by averity View Post
the euro does need us as we have one of the biggest banking industries in the world
do you mean that the UK needs free access to the Euro to maintain its position? Do you think the EU would give that to the UK for gratis if we want to leave?
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  #92  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Not really I've proved the point how important we are and why on earth should Brussels interfere with our laws? And way we run the nation. Every country no matter how big or small should have right to govern their country.
I am voting out but over inflating the importance of the UK membership of Europe is silly .
A Brexit is not going to plunge the rest of Europe into the chaos infact the current Eurozone GDP is growing faster than the UKs .
Will be interesting to see how the Populations of the EU countries view the UKs membership in the run up to the Referendum .
Britain is not the power it once was globally .
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  #93  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:49 AM
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Two predictions:

First is that the vote will be to stay in by at least 5%. You can get 1/2 on paddypower at the moment on stay which I'll defo get behind.

Secondly the media will massively get behind the stay campaign in the weeks before the vote. The pressure from the US for Britain to stay in Europe is going to have a profound impact on both the media and politicians.
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  #94  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
really within the EU isn't that position taken by France?
Precisely. If you are looking for examples of superiority complexes , look no further than Germany and France.. The whole system favours them and they know it .. By far the loudest voices and by far the greatest benefactors of the eu ..
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  #95  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
really within the EU isn't that position taken by France?
It used to be and the entire European 'project' was essentially a Franco-German centred on but the EU has to/has evolved and its not so clear cut now.

With ironically the biggest threat to the EU coming from a French withdrawal which is what the FN are proposing.

But Britain is now Europes second biggest economic power. And that has to matter. Germany wants us inside the EU for a variety of reasons, not least beause I sense that it actually wants somebody who can temper its natural power. Germany is, simply by dint of geography, the dominant power in Europe. And that does not sit quietly with it, given its history.
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  #96  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:54 AM
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Precisely. If you are looking for examples of superiority complexes , look no further than Germany and France.. The whole system favours them and they know it .. By far the loudest voices and by far the greatest benefactors of the eu ..
the original set up was designed to ensure that they never went to war against each other so that is probably fair enough. We came fairly late to the party then have spent a lot of time moaning about it. if we had spent that time building alliances within the EU we probably could have affected more influence then we do currently.
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  #97  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Lol not really it's comes from fact we're 2nd most influential power after the Germans .
Are we? Influence doesn't come from economic size but from how you work politically and Cameron has diminished UK influence, first by taking his party out of the biggest Parliamentary group and then by following narrow self-interest in opposition even to the collective interests of our allies, without whom we win nothing. In 5 years we have gone from being the big player who divided the power of France-Germany, thus attracting the support of smaller members who were getting squeezed, and to being isolated on the fringes of the debate.
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  #98  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
With ironically the biggest threat to the EU coming from a French withdrawal which is what the FN are proposing.
I know a few Eurocrats. None of them, but none, worry abotu a French withdrawal from the EU.

Now that UKIP have imploded, are the FN your new tip for the top?
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  #99  
Old 09-05-2015, 09:58 AM
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You think the Germans want to lose the second biggest Economy in the EU, wonder whose tax payers will be making that funding hole up....
Discount that against not having to pay for the UK rebate which other countries have to contribute to. None of the arithmetic is simple.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:58 AM
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It used to be and the entire European 'project' was essentially a Franco-German centred on but the EU has to/has evolved and its not so clear cut now.

With ironically the biggest threat to the EU coming from a French withdrawal which is what the FN are proposing.

But Britain is now Europes second biggest economic power. And that has to matter. Germany wants us inside the EU for a variety of reasons, not least beause I sense that it actually wants somebody who can temper its natural power. Germany is, simply by dint of geography, the dominant power in Europe. And that does not sit quietly with it, given its history.

Mat you need to control your german paranoia. its not just geography that makes germany dominant in the EU its economics - in fact in germany there is much questioning about being more forceful as the lead nation as it were. they are wary of the role because of the past which is understandable. however i doubt that the germans are really planning some new reich.
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