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  #81  
Old 24-06-2016, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
maybe they could have special outfits, maybe a nice clean white colour, with a hood for special occasions.
The Arab league and UNASUR are trade and diplomatic organisations united by culture and language (and I assume religion). Are they KKK too?
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  #82  
Old 24-06-2016, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
The irony is jaw dropping.

How dare the UK force a country out of the EU against its will and then refuse to allow that country a say on self determination.
Please....

Forced? 1 million scots wanted out of Europe - that's a sizable amount to walk away from something for. The referendum was as much as in Scot's hands, as anybody's, and they could have swung it.

The irony is having self-determination of a referendum, and it again not going the way the SNP wanted, and using it to force a third one.

Can anybody explain the 20% differentiation of being 'ruled by London' as opposed 'ruled by Brussels'? Because you would have thought it would be fairly similar to the first referendum, given the idea of sovereignty and self-determination?
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  #83  
Old 24-06-2016, 01:53 PM
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Scotland should have a 2nd UK exit referendum, then join a united Ireland. That way they have a better chance of qualifying for a major football tournament
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  #84  
Old 24-06-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
, and being a bigot while doing so. Oh the irony.
A bigot, for what calling out nationalists for what they are.... as I said 'acceptable' - that's the irony.

I voted remain, as I believe in stronger together. I was pro-Scotland staying with the UK. What a bigot I am.
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  #85  
Old 24-06-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by willcpfc View Post
Nicola Sturgeon is exploiting a situation.
Yes she is. She exploiting the fact that 62% in Scotland voted to remain in the EU while the overall vote sees the UK exiting. She is also exploiting the fact that when the last referendum happened the UK was in the EU, and it appeared fanciful that would change so therefore the way some voted could have been swayed by this fact.

The parameters have now changed and given her just claim to state 'it is a significant and material change in circumstances' as justification to call for another referendum.

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  #86  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by willcpfc View Post
Nicola Sturgeon is exploiting a situation. Problem being, its not clear she will get a mandate for a new referendum, let alone one with any more chance of success as the last....
Call her bluff. Give her the referendum. Put it to bed for one last time. Nothing for the rUK to lose. In fact, only things to gain.
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  #87  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Yes she is. She exploiting the fact that 62% in Scotland voted to remain in the EU while the overall vote sees the UK exiting. She is also exploiting the fact that when the last referendum happened the UK was in the EU, and it appeared fanciful that would change so therefore the way some voted could have been swayed by this fact.

The parameters have now changed and given her just claim to state 'it is a significant and material change in circumstances' as justification to call for another referendum.

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Does voting for the UK to remain in the EU necessarily translate to votes for Scotland to be split from an independent UK?

I'm not sure that it does.

Throw in possible restrictions on migration to the rest of the UK, the fact that Scotland would probably have to adopt the Euro and poor oil prices and I'm skeptical that the Scottish people would vote for this.

That said; I'm not sure what the mood is like up there.
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  #88  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle mart View Post
A bigot, for what calling out nationalists for what they are.... as I said 'acceptable' - that's the irony.

I voted remain, as I believe in stronger together. I was pro-Scotland staying with the UK. What a bigot I am.
The tone, and words you use in your post is clearly of a bigoted nature.

You still have not justified why Nicola Sturgeon is bigoted. The woman who said this very morning;

And let me also make it clear about this: that whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends. Nothing will ever change that.
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  #89  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
The tone, and words you use in your post is clearly of a bigoted nature.

You still have not justified why Nicola Sturgeon is bigoted. The woman who said this very morning;

And let me also make it clear about this: that whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends. Nothing will ever change that.
That could've come from Microsoft Politician. It both says and means little.
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  #90  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
The tone, and words you use in your post is clearly of a bigoted nature.

You still have not justified why Nicola Sturgeon is bigoted. The woman who said this very morning;

And let me also make it clear about this: that whatever happens as a result of this outcome, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will always be Scotland's closest neighbours and our best friends. Nothing will ever change that.
My tone - I'm annoyed. The country has gone bonkers, with the importance of two fingers up to the establishment over and above absolutely everything else.

As you read, I back tracked from her directly, straight away, but the word was more for Adams, but I don't doubt she'll play to the bigots of Scotland with the rabble rousing. And as you said, she'll exploit.

What we need right now is less nationalism.
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  #91  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle-leg View Post
Does voting for the UK to remain in the EU necessarily translate to votes for Scotland to be split from an independent UK?

I'm not sure that it does.

Throw in possible restrictions on migration to the rest of the UK, the fact that Scotland would probably have to adopt the Euro and poor oil prices and I'm skeptical that the Scottish people would vote for this.

That said; I'm not sure what the mood is like up there.
I think the significance is that since the SNP want self determination for Scotland, they feel that as the Scottish people have given a very clear message they want in the EU rUK is forcing them in a different direction.

I think you could also add to the mix of the reasons why Scotland may not vote for Independence, is that if the protective veil of the EU is not afforded to them as an Independent nation may see some who voted YES last time voting NO this time.

I am simply arguing against some posts on here on the basis of the language they are using and where they quite clearly do not know their facts and are simply allowing prejudice to get in the way of reasoned argument.
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  #92  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:21 PM
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Call her bluff. Give her the referendum. Put it to bed for one last time. Nothing for the rUK to lose. In fact, only things to gain.
I think that is right, and I think the snp would have a far tougher challenge to get the public to back independence than last time.
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  #93  
Old 24-06-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle mart View Post
My tone - I'm annoyed. The country has gone bonkers, with the importance of two fingers up to the establishment over and above absolutely everything else.

As you read, I back tracked from her directly, straight away, but the word was more for Adams, but I don't doubt she'll play to the bigots of Scotland with the rabble rousing. And as you said, she'll exploit.

What we need right now is less nationalism.
I can understand why you would see a number of Scots as bigots because of their expressed opinions of England. But just from my experience, nearly all of it is banter. Does not mean it does not exist, because it does, but personally I think Scotland wide it has had little significance in people up here wanting Independence or not.

I actually worry, as you appear to be doing, that why go through this when the country is already going major turmoil over exiting from the EU.

However seeing as Scotland want to remain this is exactly the time a second referendum should be called. However I will well pissed off with the SNP (and the rest of YES campaign) if they do not have a very strong feeling they will win this time, as it really is the last thing the UK needs just now, if it carries little chance of success.

I would rather, if it is even possible, that Scotland negotiate with the EU that they are simply allowed back in on a successful YES vote, following the UK Exit negotiations being concluded. It will also allow, rather selfishly, an opportunity for the Scottish people to evaluate what exit will mean before actually voting YES or NO.
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  #94  
Old 24-06-2016, 03:17 PM
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I can see a lot of trouble in the six counties. Despite the much closer working together between once enemy politicians there is no way the traditional Orangemen will allow the results of any vote on unification to be implemented. Odd thing is that friends of mine are Chief Inspector for Education and head of the fire and ambulance service, one is certainly catholic (so certainly bucking the trend of what was possible) and not sure of the religion of the other, as despite knowing him very well 30 years back religion never came into the conversation. I really hope we don't get another version of the troubles because despite some changes, there is still far too much religious hatred for anything smooth to happen
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  #95  
Old 24-06-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
I think the significance is that since the SNP want self determination for Scotland, they feel that as the Scottish people have given a very clear message they want in the EU rUK is forcing them in a different direction.

I think you could also add to the mix of the reasons why Scotland may not vote for Independence, is that if the protective veil of the EU is not afforded to them as an Independent nation may see some who voted YES last time voting NO this time.

I am simply arguing against some posts on here on the basis of the language they are using and where they quite clearly do not know their facts and are simply allowing prejudice to get in the way of reasoned argument.
No worries. Fully in favour of reasoned debate.
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  #96  
Old 24-06-2016, 03:40 PM
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Erm they cn have a referendum but without the OK from the parliament of the united kingdom they can not leave the UK because of the Act of the Union. So Cranky woman needs to go to Parliament and ask this permission and there is no way in a million years that will b granted at the minute.
She actually addressed this very point and said it was not an issue.
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Old 24-06-2016, 03:44 PM
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I can understand why you would see a number of Scots as bigots because of their expressed opinions of England. But just from my experience, nearly all of it is banter. Does not mean it does not exist, because it does, but personally I think Scotland wide it has had little significance in people up here wanting Independence or not.

I actually worry, as you appear to be doing, that why go through this when the country is already going major turmoil over exiting from the EU.

However seeing as Scotland want to remain this is exactly the time a second referendum should be called. However I will well pissed off with the SNP (and the rest of YES campaign) if they do not have a very strong feeling they will win this time, as it really is the last thing the UK needs just now, if it carries little chance of success.

I would rather, if it is even possible, that Scotland negotiate with the EU that they are simply allowed back in on a successful YES vote, following the UK Exit negotiations being concluded. It will also allow, rather selfishly, an opportunity for the Scottish people to evaluate what exit will mean before actually voting YES or NO.
I was totally against Scottish independence during their referendum. After our campaigns on the EU, and the result, I can fully empathise with the Scots, and now would wish them well if they want to leave the UK. This referendum has given them licence to do so with honour, and legitimacy.
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Old 24-06-2016, 03:56 PM
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I was totally against Scottish independence during their referendum. After our campaigns on the EU, and the result, I can fully empathise with the Scots, and now would wish them well if they want to leave the UK. This referendum has given them licence to do so with honour, and legitimacy.
That is my view also. I wouldn't object to sharing the currency either if it was done properly.
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Old 24-06-2016, 03:56 PM
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If the Scots vote for remain had tipped the balance in remains favour, would the English have demanded an independance vote from Scotland ? Of course not. Mrs cranky can't accept she lost.
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Old 24-06-2016, 03:58 PM
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I presume if they leave the UK before we leave the EU then no. That is why she is in a hurry.
Yep. Was listening to Radio Scotland this morning and they were making the point that the timings would be very touch and go, but in theory Scotland could get all the legislation through before ruk upped and left, meaning that they could remain on the same terms and trade deals. Not sure if its possible, its division within division within divisions, but even allowing for the current oil price (which will rise at some point you would think), the lure of remaining part of the EU in whatever form it will look like in 2 years time, will be appealing to many, whether they were YES or NO last time.

Not sure about Northern Ireland. There's kettles of fish everywhere, if you pardon the expression.
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