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  #41  
Old 17-01-2019, 01:33 PM
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Politics is life and it's politically motivated to pretend otherwise
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  #42  
Old 18-01-2019, 10:39 AM
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Politics is for people who don't understand philosophy in much the same way religion has become for science.

Nothing in life is divisible from the experience of existence. The more we understand the greater our knowledge, and richer our experience becomes.

In discourse we create and recreate the world and there has always been a reason why those with power have effectively promoted ignorance and anti intellectulism.

Reading is the most subversive activity. Every revolutio, every social movement for change begins with someone reading a book.
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  #43  
Old 18-01-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Politics is for people who don't understand philosophy in much the same way religion has become for science.

Nothing in life is divisible from the experience of existence. The more we understand the greater our knowledge, and richer our experience becomes.

In discourse we create and recreate the world and there has always been a reason why those with power have effectively promoted ignorance and anti intellectulism.

Reading is the most subversive activity. Every revolutio, every social movement for change begins with someone reading a book.
Er, no.
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  #44  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:07 AM
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Er, no.
Explains why he was randomly quoting Socrates in the Gillette thread
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  #45  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:21 AM
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He lost me the second he suggested that religion is 'for' people who don't understand science.
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  #46  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:29 AM
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I rather like the contention that religion is a thicko's philosophy. It's certainly true that religion attempts to answer some philosophical questions and if you are "in" a religion it has basically sorted out some questions about why we are here, what is life for and how should I live my life.

I once posited the idea that if you define "God" as the answer to questions to which we don't know the answer (such as those philosophical ones) then obviously God exists and will continue to exist until we know all the answers (which is never).

Of course, other definitions of "God" are available.
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  #47  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:40 AM
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I rather like the contention that religion is a thicko's philosophy.
Be that as it may, it's completely unsupported by fact. With plenty of facts to support any statement that it's a false claim.


My favourite one is that 65% of Nobel Laureates identify as Christian.



Plenty, but plenty, of scientists in there.
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  #48  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:48 AM
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Be that as it may, it's completely unsupported by fact. With plenty of facts to support any statement that it's a false claim.


My favourite one is that 65% of Nobel Laureates identify as Christian.



Plenty, but plenty, of scientists in there.
Facts! Who needs those.

I think the original contention that politics was philosophy for dum-dums. I was changing that to Religion. But some might argue that science & religion are attempts to answer the same questions up to a point, and so is philosophy.

But I'm not sure any of it is provable - my favourite factoid is that with hardly any exceptions people are born into a religion and stay in it till they die. So religion is an accident of birth - so much for truth and self examination!
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  #49  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:52 AM
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So religion is an accident of birth - so much for truth and self examination!
Choice of specific religion may well be, yes.


But faith? Less likely.
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  #50  
Old 18-01-2019, 11:59 AM
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Choice of specific religion may well be, yes.


But faith? Less likely.
Ah! Your point being that SOME religion is, um, instinctive (?) but the specific religion is whatever your parent(s) foisted on you?
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  #51  
Old 18-01-2019, 12:01 PM
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Ah! Your point being that SOME religion is, um, instinctive (?) but the specific religion is whatever your parent(s) foisted on you?
Nah ; more that being/not being religious is a personal choice that most people make, irrespective of their background or parentage.



But I agree that choice of religion tends to more follow upbringing.
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  #52  
Old 18-01-2019, 01:40 PM
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He lost me the second he suggested that religion is 'for' people who don't understand science.
The percentage of scientists that have a "religion" varies around the world and depends on the historical culture and religion in their particular country of birth.

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Research in this country that have involved interviews with scientists who have asserted that their scientific discipline does not conflict with that religion, is explained by "compartmentalisation" of their belief. So essentially, reason,logic, and scientific methodology, is for that belief, suspended by the scientist in order to resolve that conflict. Not really surprising in my view.
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  #53  
Old 18-01-2019, 01:58 PM
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Your source claims that it is “the first ever such survey”.

This is not a good start, since I have already provided facts which disprove this, going back 100 years or so. When a website makes such a basic mistake, it rather throws the rest of their conclusions into doubt.
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  #54  
Old 18-01-2019, 10:19 PM
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Your source claims that it is “the first ever such survey”.

This is not a good start, since I have already provided facts which disprove this, going back 100 years or so. When a website makes such a basic mistake, it rather throws the rest of their conclusions into doubt.
Genuine enquiry as I would like to read your facts. Can you direct me to your post number on this thread, or the link or source of information for those. No trying to be confrontational, just interested and curious. Thanks.
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  #55  
Old 18-01-2019, 10:22 PM
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Post 47.

I think I learned it from Wiki years ago, but am happy to find the source if you can’t.
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  #56  
Old 19-01-2019, 08:29 AM
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Post 47.

I think I learned it from Wiki years ago, but am happy to find the source if you canít.
You did learn it from Wiki:

To view the link you have to Register or Login

Yes 65% of laureates identify as Christian, but only 20% of the Wiki list are scientists, and it didn't list anywhere laureate scientists that do not identify in this way to reveal an accurate percentage. I remember too, another figure that only about 4% of living scientists today identify as Christian.

In any event, I don't think it changes the point I was making, in as much there is a personal conflict between the scientist's dedication and discipline to reason, logic, scientific methodology and religious belief, that has to be accommodated in some way.
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  #57  
Old 19-01-2019, 08:32 AM
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  #58  
Old 19-01-2019, 08:39 AM
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In any event, I don't think it changes the point I was making, in as much there is a personal conflict between the scientist's dedication and discipline to reason, logic, scientific methodology and religious belief, that has to be accommodated in some way.
Meh. If you take the last British scientist on that list - Anthony Hewish, who was involved in the discovery of pulsars - he, like many of his ilk, has no problem at all To view the link you have to Register or Login

Now you may not agree with him but thatís not the point, which is that he sees no conflicts at all.
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Old 19-01-2019, 09:50 AM
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Meh. If you take the last British scientist on that list - Anthony Hewish, who was involved in the discovery of pulsars - he, like many of his ilk, has no problem at all To view the link you have to Register or Login

Now you may not agree with him but that’s not the point, which is that he sees no conflicts at all.
Of course I agree with him, how can I not?

However, the clue to it all is in the title of your link and the word "reconciling" religion and science.

He knows full well the difference between something that is based on non evidential subject matter, and that which has undergone scientific scrutiny. The way he has personally reconciled this, is using the example of physical particles, that do not behave in a way previously understood and predicted by science as the gap in which his god can inhabit. This "reconciliation" method he is adopting is not new, and it goes back to the last two centuries of science and belief. However, as science develops and the gaps begin to fill, some of these antiquarian beliefs fall away by necessity. I have to say though, that there will always be a gap somewhere in scientific explanation that some scientists in the future will use to accommodate their beliefs, although the options will be far fewer than they were back in the nineteenth century.

Not at all a criticism, just an observation and explanation.
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  #60  
Old 19-01-2019, 10:03 AM
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Faith, mysticism and spiritual power can be an area of fascination, exploration and great good.

When religion puts definition on the unknown, rules on life, sanctions on transgression, demeanition on outsiders and puts men in charge of such a power framework, I tend to have a problem or two with it.

It is good to think of these two facets as separate even as the latter trades heavily on the former, regularly (but not always) besmirching its good name
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