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  #1  
Old 06-03-2019, 08:35 AM
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Is a fall in police numbers related to an increase in knife crime?

Not according to Theresa May yesterday when interviewed following a huge rise in knife attacks in London and elsewhere. Even the BBC last night produced a graph showing that as police numbers have fallen, so have violent attacks in tandem. However, both these reports are deceptively presented. When you single out knife crime alone, the startling rise in attacks beginning in 2014 correlate exactly with the drastic cuts in police numbers from 2014. To add some further meat to this, the number of charges for violent crime has also dramatically fallen, something perhaps not unexpected when you reduce police numbers and detection leading to arrests are more difficult to achieve.

The BBC reported on all this in January this year, but you have to delve into the text and tease out the information to get to the truth of the matter.

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The cuts in youth services due to austerity policies since 2010 also contributes to the problem in all sorts of ways. Is anything effective going to be done? Not when our own prime minister is in total denial and exudes complacency.
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Old 06-03-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Not according to Theresa May yesterday when interviewed following a huge rise in knife attacks in London and elsewhere. Even the BBC last night produced a graph showing that as police numbers have fallen, so have violent attacks in tandem. However, both these reports are deceptively presented. When you single out knife crime alone, the startling rise in attacks beginning in 2014 correlate exactly with the drastic cuts in police numbers from 2014. To add some further meat to this, the number of charges for violent crime has also dramatically fallen, something perhaps not unexpected when you reduce police numbers and detection leading to arrests are more difficult to achieve.

The BBC reported on all this in January this year, but you have to delve into the text and tease out the information to get to the truth of the matter.

Here is the link:

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The cuts in youth services due to austerity policies since 2010 also contributes to the problem in all sorts of ways. Is anything effective going to be done? Not when our own prime minister is in total denial and exudes complacency.
May’s comments were crass and inaccurate, and shows both how far off kilter her political radar has gone, the stupidity of her SPAD team, and a total lack of any humility about errors she may have made, just like over Windrush. It also shows how domestic policy issues have been largely ignored since July 2016 when parliament and government as a whole became paralysed by Brexit.

There clearly isn’t an easy answer, like many problems such as youth unemployment, elderly social care, mental health etc, it requires coordinated action across well funded government and local authority agencies, supported by strong community organisations. Much of that has been trashed by austerity and the government has been trying to deflect from that by blaming drill music and other black cultural things. Sure they are a part of the noise around the problem, but there are far bigger ones like cross county line drug running, lack of youth services, lack of engagement with the (mostly) young black men and their issues, low police investment meaning that quick cheap blunt solutions are used rather than long term effective ones etc etc.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:21 AM
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Great post.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:29 AM
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I look forward to the government announcing some knee jerk symptom treatment.

God forbid they look at underlying causes.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:55 AM
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We are living through a low crime golden age
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:56 AM
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I look forward to the government announcing some knee jerk symptom treatment.

God forbid they look at underlying causes.
Like appoint a Tsar to it and then blame them when it doesn't get sorted?
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:59 AM
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:02 AM
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:03 AM
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Incredible, really, to look at how few incidents of violent crime there are, compared to when I was growing up - not that that helps victims.
If you want to get back to that downward trend line, Diane Abbott is right to point out that, as well as having more cops around, policies on austerity need to be reversed.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:08 AM
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I'm going on Dragon's Den with my Kevlar school uniform pitch. Wish me luck.
Are you going to stab a couple of Dragons as part of your pitch?

Would be a pretty persuasive manoevure I reckon, better still do a couple of their kids the afternoon of the show and then play the footage in the evening.

I reckon you'd get £200,000 for 20% almost instantly
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:10 AM
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El Ag said what I was about to say. It's not just police cuts. It is austerity in general and cuts to other vital services which all contribute.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:29 AM
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The UK has higher figures than most of the rest of the EU - I know *over here in Spain*, which has half the UK's rate, sentencing is very harsh where violence is involved in crime, compared to when it is not. I think that must have a deterrent effect.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:37 AM
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Mayís comments were crass and inaccurate, and shows both how far off kilter her political radar has gone, the stupidity of her SPAD team, and a total lack of any humility about errors she may have made, just like over Windrush. It also shows how domestic policy issues have been largely ignored since July 2016 when parliament and government as a whole became paralysed by Brexit.

There clearly isnít an easy answer, like many problems such as youth unemployment, elderly social care, mental health etc, it requires coordinated action across well funded government and local authority agencies, supported by strong community organisations. Much of that has been trashed by austerity and the government has been trying to deflect from that by blaming drill music and other black cultural things. Sure they are a part of the noise around the problem, but there are far bigger ones like cross county line drug running, lack of youth services, lack of engagement with the (mostly) young black men and their issues, low police investment meaning that quick cheap blunt solutions are used rather than long term effective ones etc etc.
What an excellent post.

What is even more frustrating is the cost of crime in terms of insurance, administration, the courts the prison system etc.

Those resources could be so much better deployed.

Early intervention is key, as well as respect and dignity. Yet we have a school system that excludes at will.

There can be no bigger confirmation of societal rejection to a youngster than that. Rejected from school, often from chaotic family and living conditions, free of positive role models and demonised by society and deemed unemployable - is it any wonder the disenfranchised turn to each other to form their own sense of belonging and turn to crime to fund it.

The reasons for gang culture are clear. The government however believe it is music that causes it. Next up Stephen Spielberg to be blamed for the holocaust
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:01 AM
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This is all very well but if you are going to spend more on policing and I think we should, then the onus is on you to say what we are going to spend less on. The benefits culture consumes everything.

Cressida Dicks job is to do the best with the budget she has not whinge about the budget itself, we have politicians for that. She has always been useless.

The police will be carrying guns in residential areas soon.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:05 AM
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What an excellent post.

What is even more frustrating is the cost of crime in terms of insurance, administration, the courts the prison system etc.

Those resources could be so much better deployed.

Early intervention is key, as well as respect and dignity. Yet we have a school system that excludes at will.

There can be no bigger confirmation of societal rejection to a youngster than that. Rejected from school, often from chaotic family and living conditions, free of positive role models and demonised by society and deemed unemployable - is it any wonder the disenfranchised turn to each other to form their own sense of belonging and turn to crime to fund it.

The reasons for gang culture are clear. The government however believe it is music that causes it. Next up Stephen Spielberg to be blamed for the holocaust
No one gives a shyte, having worked in a shop I can spot a shop lifter a mile off, I see it all the time. Its just allowed to happen honest people pay for it in higher prices.

What has societal rejection got to do with police?
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:06 AM
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Don't worry the army are standing by to sort out knife crime.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:19 AM
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No one gives a shyte, having worked in a shop I can spot a shop lifter a mile off, I see it all the time. Its just allowed to happen honest people pay for it in higher prices.
So there is a cost to crime for the rest of us
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What has societal rejection got to do with police?
Do the Police not have to deal with gangs?
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:25 AM
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So there is a cost to crime for the rest of us


Do the Police not have to deal with gangs?
Its not up to the police to deal with stealing in shops the shops should have their own security but its pointless if the courts don't back them up.

They are not and should not be social workers, societal rejection isn't their job.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:29 AM
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Was talking to a copper I know about this he said 90% of stabbings in London will be drug related someone selling on there patch fighting over areas ect .he also added even if there was more police to fight it when it gets to court a lot will be let off a prison sentence so till there's a punishment that will frighten offenders from carrying knifes guns or actualy using weapon to kill someone this will carry on .what did the guy get who in the middle of croydon in broad daylight caught on camera running up road with big knife get .
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:38 AM
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Is this not deterrent enough?

Lots of people seem to think that the lack of deterrent in the problem. I strongly disagree.
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