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  #41  
Old 22-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
When was the last time ANY government in the UK managed to close the gap between rich and poor?
None of them give a shit.
The Gini coefficient improved under Wilson/Callaghan in the late 70s. Passing no comment on anything else that happened under that government!
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  #42  
Old 22-05-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
As for criticising their life choices, didnít you once wrongly say someone had a drink problem?

ďThe bottle is a cruel mistressĒ
Not to mention Peter H's choice of wife
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  #43  
Old 22-05-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Not to mention Peter H's choice of wife

I didnít know he did that. Poor form.
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  #44  
Old 22-05-2019, 10:01 AM
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Tories will select a leader pushing for no deal in order to negate the impact of the Brexit Party on their polling numbers. Just as they committed to the referendum to stem defection to UKIP. Unfortunately Farage has the Conservative Party on strings.
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  #45  
Old 22-05-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
You do realise that it is the Tory party leadership election?
Yes I do. The probability is that Brexit, Corbyn, workforce changes and the environment will mean that the Tory target audience will be very different to the past. I'd say that they will have to become a party that represents the forgotten demographics and regions. There won't be many parties defending the rich at the next election.
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  #46  
Old 22-05-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
When was the last time ANY government in the UK managed to close the gap between rich and poor?
None of them give a shit.
To an extent the coalition, a bit. The Gini Coefficient had been rising in Britain since the 70s but there was a short period in the years after the 2008 depression where it fell a bit. The top groups in terms of wealth lost a bit because of falling banking bonuses whilst the poor benefitted from falling unemployment. Inequality looks to be widening again due to rising wages for those higher up the income scale. It you believe in trickle down theory that is fine because it increases government revenue.
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  #47  
Old 22-05-2019, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
I didnít know he did that. Poor form.
But you know what none of us are perfect.

Most humans are prone to anger, bias, judgmentalism, jealousy and hypocrisy, but if people moralise on here then they perhaps should recognise their own faults and fallibility too...and it is not unfair to point this out.

It is funny how often people don't see the massive hypocratic gap between their beliefs and actions.
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  #48  
Old 22-05-2019, 11:08 AM
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The same Liz Truss who made a complete and utter clusterfvck of being LC ?

Yeah, good one
Spot on.
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  #49  
Old 22-05-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cambridge Eagle View Post
The Gini coefficient improved under Wilson/Callaghan in the late 70s. Passing no comment on anything else that happened under that government!
Strictly speaking, by some Gini measures, it has improved under this government, passing no comments on anything else that happened under this governemnt!

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  #50  
Old 22-05-2019, 11:27 AM
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  #51  
Old 22-05-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Strictly speaking, by some Gini measures, it has improved under this government, passing no comments on anything else that happened under this governemnt!

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I struggle with this.

Poverty is wrong, very wrong. But is wealth wrong?

Obviously extreme wealth is a contrast even to the comfortable, but does wealth per se cause poverty?

Should it be about the haves versus the have nots, or is a society of the haves and have a lots OK?

Extremes lead to a divided society and poverty leads to crime in a society based on material wealth, but I don't know, maybe it is my bias, but I definitely feel there are good rich and bad rich.

And then there is the effect of wealth on the environment...
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  #52  
Old 22-05-2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
But you know what none of us are perfect.

Most humans are prone to anger, bias, judgmentalism, jealousy and hypocrisy, but if people moralise on here then they perhaps should recognise their own faults and fallibility too...and it is not unfair to point this out.

It is funny how often people don't see the massive hypocratic gap between their beliefs and actions.
Canít disagree with any of that.

It may sting a little when people point it out... but overall.. I think itís healthy.
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  #53  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
I didnít know he did that. Poor form.
I wasnít aware of that either. Poor form.
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  #54  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:08 PM
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I don't believe he did. Even he wouldn't sink that low, and Virginia is delightful.
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  #55  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I wasnít aware of that either. Poor form.

I didnít think youíd criticise his wife AND say he had a drink problem.
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  #56  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I struggle with this.

Poverty is wrong, very wrong. But is wealth wrong?

Obviously extreme wealth is a contrast even to the comfortable, but does wealth per se cause poverty?

Should it be about the haves versus the have nots, or is a society of the haves and have a lots OK?

Extremes lead to a divided society and poverty leads to crime in a society based on material wealth, but I don't know, maybe it is my bias, but I definitely feel there are good rich and bad rich.

And then there is the effect of wealth on the environment...
There are. The Gini Coefficient has some problems for me. In order to get an international comparison you end up missing local subtleties. So in the UK for instance the two towns with the highest inequality are Oxford and Cambridge whilst Burnley and Mansfield have the least. Now I've worked on the edge of the Blackbird estate but even still I'd say that Oxford wasn't the worst place to be based.
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  #57  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Whatís your view on people that moralise on message boards but have no problem seeking employment in countries with horrific human rights record?
On "moralising" I guess it depends on what it's about. On a message board other people are largely anonymous. Everyone's free to post their thoughts/opinions and can expect to get those robustly challenged, but I tend to find having a pop at people's lives is a bit shit. We all do it a bit, but it's made the BBS shitter.

But the issues of the day? I think everyone's got a right to an opinion. It's the point of a message board isn't it? Trying to shut down a conversation on whether or not a politician you like is a bigot, or a man you like is a rapist, by having a pop at other posters seems a bit wanky. Playing the man not the ball and all that.

As for place of work, I don't think any worker is responsible for the actions of a government, unless they've voted for it or (for example in a dictatorship) support it. In moral terms I tend to think the choice of job is more/less moral than the location.

Thinking a teacher working in China, or an aid worker in Sudan, are morally bankrupt because of the poor human rights records of those government while a British hedge fund manager is a good sort because he stayed here in blighty strikes me a bit ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting incidentally that you can know for certain anything of the morals of those individuals just by their roles either. The aid worker might be a nonce, the teacher might have a side business fleecing local people with dodgy baby milk and the hedge fund manager might donate half his salary to charity.

At the bottom end of the pay scale (which is most people really) I'm not naive enough to think people have the luxery of choice. A lot of people simply have to take what they can get. It's easy to criticise others career choices when you haven't had to deal with their circumstances. I've seen middle class Oxbridge journalists from the guardian talking about how outrageous it is to have worked for the Sun/Mail, when I'm not sure every working class left wing kid looking for a first job in newspapers can be so discriminating.

But regardless of your choices I think we all have the right to critique our politicians, because we're all represented by them.
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  #58  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
My guess is Boris - if he becomes PM - will want to stay PM. He knows a hard Brexit will be a catastrophe and so he would soon be ousted and he knows Mays deal won't fly in the HOC, so he will go for a referendum and let people let him, and hopefully themselves (although that is far from certain), off the hook.
I agree with that if he becomes PM he will suddenly be less keen on a no deal Brexit. I do not, however, think he will go for a referendum.
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  #59  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:27 PM
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The media twitterati seem to think that moves are afoot and May's Premiership may end even sooner than currently planned.
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  #60  
Old 22-05-2019, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamberleyEagle View Post
Isn't Corbyn on wife number 3?
Yes, but I'm not sure that's comparible to Trump. I don't know if Corbyn cheated on his wives (I don't think he did but I haven't checked), but he isn't pretending to be religious and isn't backed by evangelicals who preach family values.
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