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  #21  
Old 14-06-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post

As I wrote below the last post. That doesn't prove that the liberals tempered Tory cuts. It just shows that the scale of the cuts was not necessary (due to lower debt interest than predicted) or proved politically too difficult.
When did necessity become a prerequisite for Tory cuts?

Politically they already set out their schedule and won the most seats on the basis of that manifesto.
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  #22  
Old 14-06-2019, 10:35 AM
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The vitriol for Umunna, even while he was still in the party, from the Corbynite left has always been weird. He was always a hard working MP yet it was him, rather than Hoey in Vauxhall who pals around with Farage, that they were trying to deselect.

Odd.

Now he's gone, which is what they apparently wanted, they seem to hate him even more.
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  #23  
Old 14-06-2019, 11:55 AM
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Heb gets it all wrong. Odd.

There was not even a no confidence vote on him let alone an attempt to deselect.

The Vauxhall CLP has passsd no confidence motions in the CLP and is almost certain to replace her at the next election. The problem is that despite all the noise around it, it’s actually very hard to reselect an MP. Personally I think the rules should be changed.

He wasn’t a hard working MP and given Heb isn’t in his constituency how the hell would he know? When I had to contact him about a serious constituency matter he did next to nothing. It was actually quite shameful as it was someone in a very vulnerable position.

He also did nothing at all about the on going issue of institutional racism in Lambeth council.

He then lied to the CLP that he wasn’t going to leave when he knew he was, even sharply condemning those who asked.


Hebs post is just a load of made up nonsense.
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  #24  
Old 14-06-2019, 12:12 PM
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Was it 2015 when he decided against running for Labour leader? I expect he'd be PM by now if he'd gone for it.
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  #25  
Old 14-06-2019, 04:40 PM
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  #26  
Old 14-06-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
Quite considerably, actually reducing cuts vs the Labour manifesto

Of course that is what they did rather than.pledged to do. We don't know how much the other parties would have done. Maybe half the total pledged.

What is scary is how the conservative austerity was planned to be much worse.
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  #27  
Old 14-06-2019, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post

Of course that is what they did rather than.pledged to do. We don't know how much the other parties would have done. Maybe half the total pledged.

What is scary is how the conservative austerity was planned to be much worse.
I think the Tories thought the recovery would be more like 1994-6 when after a recession the world economy bounced back quite strongly. This time the uk economy was held back by amongst other things the BP oil spill wiping out a sixth of dividends, the Eurozone banking crisis which led to big write downs at uk multinationals and the fact that our own banks were in much worse state than expected due to bad debts, Libor, PPI and American fines. The planned cuts were just not sustainable.
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  #28  
Old 14-06-2019, 05:13 PM
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Don't see why he's getting so much stick, he clearly doesn't like the direction Labour are moving in so he's left and found a party that's more in tune with his beliefs. Time for both he and Labour to move on and worry about Boris Johnson rather than bitching about each other.
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  #29  
Old 14-06-2019, 05:23 PM
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To my mind never totally convincing on the Brexit debates in the Commons even given the lack of direction from the Labour leadership. He was making a stand but seemed to me he was playing it both ways.
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  #30  
Old 14-06-2019, 06:32 PM
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Welcome aboard me old Chuka!
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  #31  
Old 14-06-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Poosence View Post
The Lib Dems are now 1/6th Palace
Tom Brake Liberal MP for Carshalton is a Palace supporter ( he even quoted " he's too good for you" about Wilf in the HOC.

So 1/3
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  #32  
Old 14-06-2019, 07:06 PM
Harry Bassett Harry Bassett is offline
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Best comment suggesting Chuka will not stay in the Lib Dems is when he joins the Ann Summers Party!
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  #33  
Old 14-06-2019, 10:30 PM
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Labour complain about unfair treatment in the media, yet pore in to abuse and smear a now ex Labour MP on social media, just because he had the temerity not to pander to Corbyn's ruinous fence sitting. Pot, kettle.

Momentum always hated Chuka.

I'm open minded - you might even say liberally minded - about the ability of human beings to reassess previous decisions and make new ones.
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  #34  
Old 14-06-2019, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
Labour complain about unfair treatment in the media, yet pore in to abuse and smear a now ex Labour MP on social media, just because he had the temerity not to pander to Corbyn's ruinous fence sitting. Pot, kettle.

Momentum always hated Chuka.

I'm open minded - you might even say liberally minded - about the ability of human beings to reassess previous decisions and make new ones.
So it's okay to call something unforgivable unforgivable and within 2 years forgive it to the point of joining it,for the sole purpose of keeping himself relevant,but it's not okay to call that out?

Momentum have every reason to hate Chuka.He's a self serving fraud.
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  #35  
Old 14-06-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
He was making a stand but seemed to me he was playing it both ways.
Isn't that what the Liberal Democrat Party do?
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  #36  
Old 14-06-2019, 11:46 PM
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So it's okay to call something unforgivable unforgivable and within 2 years forgive it to the point of joining it,for the sole purpose of keeping himself relevant,but it's not okay to call that out?

Momentum have every reason to hate Chuka. He's a self serving fraud.
By all means feel free to call out contradictions. But just don't expect it to get any traction unless your own team is whiter than white....

What if, say, Corbyn believed that Scotland could have another independence referendum, but didn't believe that the UK could have another pop at the EU ref? Would that represent a contradiction, too?

As a Lib Dem member I've no qualms whatsoever about Chuka joining. Quite the opposite in fact. I recognise that all parties are necessarily broad churches and that no one party has a monopoly over all of their policy - we all bleed into each other to varying degrees. It may irk you that Labour policy is the same as Lib Dem, Tory and Brexit party policy on certain issues, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I also acknowledge that the mechanics of politiking in general mean that MPs have always ignored that fact because differentation is key to voters, and crucially it's key to members. As such, broadsides on opposing parties simply for being opposing parties are part of the game. It debases all of us, but there it is.

Millions of people at real war with each other have learnt to live with and forgive one another, so I'm really none too concerned about someone changing his mind, and realising that actually, mutual values can overlap - and you can still disagree on some points - especially when you agree on the really big important stuff.
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  #37  
Old 14-06-2019, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
By all means feel free to call out contradictions. But just don't expect it to get any traction unless you're own team is whiter than white....

What if, say, Corbyn believed that Scotland could have another independence referendum, but didn't believe that the UK could have another pop at the EU ref? Would that represent a contradiction, too?

As a Lib Dem member I've no qualms whatsoever about Chuka joining. Quite the opposite in fact. I recognise that all parties are necessarily broad churches and that no one party has a monopoly over all of their policy - we all bleed into each other to varying degrees. It may irk you that Labour policy is the same as Lib Dem, Tory and Brexit party policy on certain issues, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I also acknowledge that the mechanics of politiking in general mean that MPs have always ignored that fact because differentation is key to voters, and crucially it's key to members. As such, broadsides on opposing parties simply for being opposing parties are part of the game. It debases all of us, but there it is.

Millions of people at real war with each other have learnt to live with and forgive one another, so I'm really none too concerned about someone changing his mind, and realising that actually, mutual values can overlap - and you can still disagree on some points - especially when you agree on the really big important stuff.
If I remotely thought he had done it for principals and not for his career you might have a point.

He also lied to his own CLP right up until leaving and would not engage with the issue of potentially leaving at all.

He was also a very poor constituency MP.

I dont hate him I just think hes yet another careerist with a bankrupt image.
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  #38  
Old 15-06-2019, 12:10 AM
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If I remotely thought he had done it for principals and not for his career you might have a point.
Isn't joining the LibDems party akin to signing for a team like Palace? Not exactly great for the career but good for a few bucks and to get some visibility.
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  #39  
Old 15-06-2019, 12:18 AM
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Isn't joining the LibDems party akin to signing for a team like Palace? Not exactly great for the career but good for a few bucks and to get some visibility.
He had no options left.
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  #40  
Old 15-06-2019, 12:24 AM
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Leaving the Labour party - one which many insiders think is on the verge of Government - for a brand new party is career suicide. He could've kept is head down and waited out the Labour left then emerged as a front runner once Labour moved back towards the centre once more. So I'm unconvinced your careerist accusation stands up to any sort of scrutiny.

Though I'm pleased to see that people think the Lib Dems is a good career move these days. Strange times indeed.
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