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  #2001  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicmo View Post
Oh I agree as you can see from the rest of my post. As somebody else said, this has been caused by social media. As people choose who they follow they only ever hear from people with the same opinion as them and therefore assume they are the majority and as such anybody with differing views is on the wrong side of history and must be purged. you see this in every election for the past ten years.

Twitter would have you think that Labour was about to win by a landslide but it doesn't happen because most of the country aren't left wing activists.

It's the same with cancelling, the screams are so loud that people (celebrities are the worst at his) give in and bow to the pressure because they think it must reflect everybody and if they don't act then they will lose their audience/followers/customers etc when in fact they won't because the majority care more about things that actually affect their lives and are too busy to worry about the latest social media outrage fashion.

Twitter, Facebook etc should be legislated to have every user auto follow every major news outlet so they get a broad spectrum of news and opinion (mostly opinion these days) because the trick to disseminating the news is reading the Guardian and the Daily Mail and realising that once you strip away the rhetoric and bias the truth of the story lies somewhere in the middle.
The problem you get there is that Twitter IS the news. The amount of newspapers, news tv broadcasters and regular TV shows that refer to Twitter is ridiculous.
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  #2002  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by evvo111 View Post
Because we live in a relatively free country? If you, or others, want different ones then put them up as well.
I'm saying, maybe we don't actually need to errect statues at all to people and the whole idea is a bit absurd when you think about - especially when the person is usually dead for some time by the time we bung it up.

I understand why we have a statue of Badden Powell, but why its not in whatever the National HQ of the Scouts, office is the question.

Plus, is anyone ripping down statues of Churchill, Powell or Ghandi - Not really. Churchill had 'Was a Racist' sprayed on him, which Conservative MPs came a cleaned off the next day. Maybe thats the real value of statues, people will take it out on them, rather than each other.

Hardly the end of the world, that the level of hysteria it provokes seem to suggest, when all of a sudden Conservatives get VERY MORAL about property.
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  #2003  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Prince Phillip View Post
Very true, and of course Goodness Gracious Me's "Going for an English" was a beautifully observed way to balance the books. No-one got upset. They laughed. Which was the point.
They culturally appropriated that from Alexei Sayle
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  #2004  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by evvo111 View Post
Please look at this link to see what changes his movement helped achieve, not so insignificant. To view the link you have to Register or Login
He was a great and inspiring man but his influence on racism in America has not been as great as it should have been and as I said the murder of George Floyd at the hands of the police, and the reaction to it, is proof of that.
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  #2005  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Palace Dan View Post
As someone who lived in Bristol for many years it cannot be denied that the city has very strong links with the awfulness of slavery. Two main roads in Bristol are Whiteladies Road and Blackboy Hill. I am just not sure whether these are going to be the next target for eradication?? - I feel it is better not to change them as a reminder of just how prejudiced and dreadful slavery was. If all signs are eradicated how can we be reminded of what evil man can do to man? The City can't erase its history but surely must learn and be better than its past.
I thought it was a load of old bollocks that they were named after slavery, and in fact took their monikers from pubs?
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  #2006  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The reasonable solution, that the council should have taken decades ago, when it was clear that a significant section of their population objected to the statue.

A victory for civil disobedience. No one was hurt, the right thing happened and we can now maybe listen and talk reasonably about the kind of issues we have in a society that venerates some very questionable people as public icons (and conveniently forgets that when errecting a statue).

Churchills statue could quite easily include a line about him being a bit racist, as well as the leadership through the war years. And mention his role in the disaster that was Gallipoli.
It is not a decision the council could, or would, have made 'decades ago'. Neither the interest, or the will, would have reached any kind of critical mass.
Those who think no progress (never enough, of course) has been made weren't alive and living in the UK in the sixties or seventies.

But, F**k me, there are even people on here questioning the significance and achievements of MLK and the Civil Rights Movement. That's just f*cking mental, and disrespectful.

Last edited by Stellavista; 11-06-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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  #2007  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The reasonable solution, that the council should have taken decades ago, when it was clear that a significant section of their population objected to the statue.

A victory for civil disobedience. No one was hurt, the right thing happened and we can now maybe listen and talk reasonably about the kind of issues we have in a society that venerates some very questionable people as public icons (and conveniently forgets that when errecting a statue).

Churchills statue could quite easily include a line about him being a bit racist, as well as the leadership through the war years. And mention his role in the disaster that was Gallipoli.
I seem to remember that there was quite a bit on Gallipoli in the Churchill Rooms in Whitehall - I must revisit again and have a deeper look at his other views too - thank you for the heads up
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  #2008  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Take a look at history, change is generally associated with upheaval and some degree of violence. Even when you talk of MLK and Gandhi, they didn't exist in a sitation were there was not violence, but rather where they were the non-violent option. Whilst Gandhi and MLK were protesting, their way - violence was still prevelent, and garnering the news. Whether it was race riots or sickening violence perpetuated on peaceful protestors - including the murder of civil rights activists who were peaceful - truth is MLK and Gandhi also got a lot of people to die and be horribly beaten rather than to defend themselves.

Depends, what would you do if a police officer was beating you with a stick for protesting the use of excessive violence by the police?
That post isn't talking about direct retaliation to a beating though is it. It's talking about a call and justification of violence to create change as a protestor if you cause is morally right, and is the only way to make it so.

Yes violence can be apart of upheaval, but to say it is justified and the only way is a very dangerous statement to make. To me that post is inciting violence, that is quite different to violent reactions in retaliation.

At what stage does 'change' become a purge? As this does happen in history.
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Last edited by MFBias; 11-06-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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  #2009  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
'Carry On' movies been banned yet?
Can't be long (ion, Angela Douglas was a sort and a half).

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  #2010  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:19 AM
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I thought it was a load of old bollocks that they were named after slavery, and in fact took their monikers from pubs?
tbh that's what I heard too but the connection has been brought up before by many Bristolians.

Be interesting to see what happens now to the Colston Hall and Colston Street etc....
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  #2011  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Depends if its funny, you neither have to laugh, or not laugh.
I asked if we are ALLOWED to laugh, surely laughing at a black joke is racist.
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  #2012  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by little al View Post
If a black comedian tells a black joke, are white people allowed to laugh? And visa versa of course.
Do you feel uncomfortable with this? Which is Chris rock essentially doing a white people joke



Or this. Which is Chris Rock doing a black people joke.




Because personally I donít. They are objectively funny.
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  #2013  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:22 AM
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I think it depends on whether you know something of the views of the comedian.

You would make a valued judgement as to whether the humour was to be found in the irony of the joke or in the racist intent.
How can there be racist intent if a black man tells a black joke?
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  #2014  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:23 AM
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tbh that's what I heard too but the connection has been brought up before by many Bristolians.
Yep, and it keeps getting refuted. Still, "truthiness" is more important than facts to the likes of dogstar so they'll probably be renamed Winnie Road and Ranavalona Hill.
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Be interesting to see what happens now to the Colston Hall and Colston Street etc....
I'm pretty sure the hall at least will be renamed. I know that the likes of Massive Attack have said they would never play there again under it's current title. I can't say this would cause me any sleepless nights, but neither would I man the barricades to ensure it happened.
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  #2015  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The police have been driving cars into protests, and firing live rounds and generally turning up to those same protests dressed in full riot gear, armoured cars, with bodycams turned off etc.

But yeah, people throwing fireworks and bricks are definately the single cause of it escalating. People in the US started firing at cops, after police started firing at protestors.

The US police and National Guard have pretty poor history when it comes to resorting to violence.

Where we are now, is where we are now, because of a failure to deal with a decades long problem of policing in the US, that has led to people being rightly afraid of being killed by the police without any real legal consequence.

Police free pass when they shoot at kill a black man, if they can find the most remote of justifications, shoot a cop and your have to find the most incredibly constructed justification to avoid spending the rest of your life in prison or being on death row.
That would be the uniform that the police in the states would normally use. Live rounds are, unfortunately, a fact of life for everyone in America. If they are facing a violent riot why shouldn't they have armoured cars etc. You said self defence is ok.

I didn't say that was the reson for the escalation I said it was something that was happening in this country and, unless the police were attacking first it cannot be self defence. If you honestly believe it is just the police officers always shooting first then we will have to agree to disagree.

The US police and National Guard have pretty poor history when it comes to resorting to violence. - No argument from me, they do.

It needs changing and you won't get any disagreement from me on that but I don't believe violence is the answer. For instance what if a black person kills on of these idiotic red necks who have friends with an armoury filled with semi automatic rifles and gods know what else. Do you think that would end well for anyone?

Trump has basically threatened the group in the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone that he will 'intervene' (I think we know what that means - more violence) if the state officials don't act.

It's a shit situation all round and I really don't think violence is the answer on either side. I know you believe differently and, for what it's worth, I respect your opinion.
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  #2016  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:23 AM
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'Carry On' movies been banned yet?
Fekir! Off!
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  #2017  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Palace Dan View Post
tbh that's what I heard too but the connection has been brought up before by many Bristolians.

Be interesting to see what happens now to the Colston Hall and Colston Street etc....
Colston Hall was renamed ages ago, wasn't it?

Edit: still not.
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  #2018  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:25 AM
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He was a great and inspiring man but his influence on racism in America has not been as great as it should have been and as I said the murder of George Floyd at the hands of the police, and the reaction to it, is proof of that.
His influence was large enough for us to learn about him in GCSE history in this country!
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  #2019  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I'm saying, maybe we don't actually need to errect statues at all to people and the whole idea is a bit absurd when you think about - especially when the person is usually dead for some time by the time we bung it up.

I understand why we have a statue of Badden Powell, but why its not in whatever the National HQ of the Scouts, office is the question.

Plus, is anyone ripping down statues of Churchill, Powell or Ghandi - Not really. Churchill had 'Was a Racist' sprayed on him, which Conservative MPs came a cleaned off the next day. Maybe thats the real value of statues, people will take it out on them, rather than each other.

Hardly the end of the world, that the level of hysteria it provokes seem to suggest, when all of a sudden Conservatives get VERY MORAL about property.
No they didn't. It was cleaned off by young members of the household calvary, who were abused in the process.

The MP's were there for a photo op.
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  #2020  
Old 11-06-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by west country boy View Post
I thought it was a load of old bollocks that they were named after slavery, and in fact took their monikers from pubs?
There's definitely a pub in Sevenoaks called The Black Boy.
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