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  #1001  
Old 06-06-2020, 06:47 PM
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Thanks guys. I see the what you are saying.

It's all getting a bit complicated.
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  #1002  
Old 06-06-2020, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by st albans View Post
The rule is still very very clear about social distancing. Anyone quoting Cummings is just looking for justification. Most of the photos I've seen about beaches, parks etc people on the whole are social distancing
I don't think people are justifying mass gatherings simply because Cummings broke the rules in one isolated act during a chain of otherwise compliance, moreso that a populace which was already tired of lockdown and was unconvinced by faltering leadership, finally lost all vestige of confidence in the word of the government when Cummings escaped any censure for breaching the rules.
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  #1003  
Old 06-06-2020, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Power View Post
I duno about you but I donít go to work thinking about all the money Iím gona leave behind when Iím brown bread.
Neither me, but on the other hand, in a no inheritance environment, I am certain there are many people with potentially productive years ahead of them who will slack off or choose to be risk averse, or to stop producing entirely, when they feel they have enough assets to last the rest of their life. Producers and capable people need some incentive to continue producing
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  #1004  
Old 06-06-2020, 06:59 PM
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Black lives matter, but key workers’ don’t???
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  #1005  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:04 PM
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Black lives matter, but key workersí donít???
Oh gawd.
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  #1006  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Neither me, but on the other hand, in a no inheritance environment, I am certain there are many people with potentially productive years ahead of them who will slack off or choose to be risk averse, or to stop producing entirely, when they feel they have enough assets to last the rest of their life. Producers and capable people need some incentive to continue producing
Iím struggling to see what would be wrong with people no longer accumulating wealth once they have everything they need.

Why do we see accumulation of unnecessary wealth as a virtue?
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  #1007  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Max_Power View Post
Itís also not true a lot of the time - thatís not to say working class whites donít enjoy privilege working class blacks donít, though.

Once upon a time I interviewed to go to Cambridge. It was pretty clear to me once I opened my mouth and started talking I never stood a chance. I could have been reciting the works of Shakespeare and they wouldnít have heard me through my South London accent.

That experience bothered me a lot until later in life I realised that for a lot of people the decision is made as soon as they walk into the room, or before that if their name doesnít fit.
There is definitely a spectrum with poor black people being disproportionately affected by things such as stop and search when they've not done anything wrong compared to poor white people. I would be very surprised if there wasn't a similar spectrum in regards to status and class though, with poorer people disproportionately having negative experiences with the police. This is largely why I feel the term white privilege is very unlikely to gain traction within poor, white working class communities unless the issues addressing both communities are addressed at the same time, as they will overlap to a degree.

I grew up being stopped and searched quite regularly in my teenage years. I would've fit the profile of someone more likely to have done something wrong. All because of what I used to wear. Jogging bottoms, hoodies and trainers. And being honest it couldn't have been any further from the truth, I've never done anything that would have resulted in me getting arrested. But I looked the part, I used to hang around on street corners with groups of other teenagers dressed exactly the same in order to fit in. Therefore, I wonder how often this happens in poor black communities too? Kids that have nothing, nowhere to go, nothing to do but most importantly are doing nothing wrong but get targeted due to individuals and groups that are doing bad things. It's no real surprise that as a result communities are distrusting of the police. This isn't to say the police are wrong. The end goal of the police is to keep communities safe, but how this can be achieved without damaging relations with poorer communities disproportionately affected, I don't know.

We clearly need more investment in poorer communities, giving young people a chance to steer clear of situations where they may end up on the radar of the Police. More support and opportunities for poorer people in education could possibly help too, removing barriers that stop promising people from returning to education when they mess up at a young age. If you mess up at a young age it can be very difficult to make amends without a lot of hard work and support. I did find a very interesting comic that highlights the issues people may face when from poorer backgrounds and does so in a far more articulate way than I can. To view the link you have to Register or Login

I also can empathise with your situation and feeling as though you weren't given opportunities due to factors out of your control. I'm sure it's also a familiar problem people within poor, black communities face too. It's not something that you can quantify, but it's just a feeling you get and it is very hard to remove the chip on your shoulder you inevitably end up with. That same chip on your shoulder leaves you feeling as though everybody is out to get you and is judging you, very hard to remove once it's there. It leaves you in a really difficult place. You're poor, unemployed, angry about perceived injustice even though you've done nothing wrong.

As a result, you come across like an angry young man, which obviously hurts your chances of employment when you get interviews. It's something I'm only able to look back on now and realise I sabotaged myself numerous times without even realising at the time. It is a very difficult thing to pull yourself away from and if young black men are experiencing the same regularly due to being stopped by police when innocent, lack of opportunities to pull themselves away from poverty etc. Is it any real surprise that they feel angry as a result with injustice? It's quite understandable to me and I am sure they have experienced far worse situations than myself. We need to listen to people from poorer communities and understand why they feel the way they do, and try to address their problems with compassion and empathy.
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  #1008  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:09 PM
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Black lives matter, but key workersí donít???
I think it might help you if I alter it to read ĎBlack Lives Matter Tooí.

Itís the fact that society doesnít seem to show any sign of believing this that the protests are happening.

If you find yourself railing against it, or feeling the need to qualify it with a Ďbut other lives matter tooí I expect you also get the hump during black history month, or the mobo awards, and I think you need to ask yourself why that is.
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  #1009  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:10 PM
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Smithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietSmithers-Jones came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
I'm all for the cause of equality but can't help wonder how the doctors and nurses we allow/expect to put their lives on the line at this time feel about the crowds gathering.
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  #1010  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:11 PM
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No, I just don’t want another covid19 spike
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  #1011  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Smithers-Jones View Post
I'm all for the cause of equality but can't help wonder how the doctors and nurses we allow/expect to put their lives on the line at this time feel about the crowds gathering.
They may be annoyed, but then again these are actions that have been legitimised by this very government defending the actions of Dominic Cummings. The second that happened, it was game over.
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  #1012  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:18 PM
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I'm all for the cause of equality but can't help wonder how the doctors and nurses we allow/expect to put their lives on the line at this time feel about the crowds gathering.
Thereís that but again.
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  #1013  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Smithers-Jones View Post
I'm all for the cause of equality but can't help wonder how the doctors and nurses we allow/expect to put their lives on the line at this time feel about the crowds gathering.
Indeed. I mean equality of life is important but letís sort the virus out first, then deal with brexit, sort out the economy then maybe we can sit down and discuss this #blacklivesmatter thing that does seem to be a bit of a bother to some people.
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  #1014  
Old 06-06-2020, 07:54 PM
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Indeed. I mean equality of life is important but let’s sort the virus out first, then deal with brexit, sort out the economy then maybe we can sit down and discuss this #blacklivesmatter thing that does seem to be a bit of a bother to some people.
Hang on, you forgot the other stuff the government hasn't had time for like publishing the report on Russian interference in our elections, the inquiry into Islamophobia, replacing flammable building cladding, replacing the Big Ben bells etc. When you think about it, there just isn't time to deal with institutional racism and social justice for the next 5 years at least.
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  #1015  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:00 PM
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Indeed. I mean equality of life is important but let’s sort the virus out first, then deal with brexit, sort out the economy then maybe we can sit down and discuss this #blacklivesmatter thing that does seem to be a bit of a bother to some people.
i think alot of people hope/ expect this to just go away.

I'm not sure what I can do about BLM. As a white, middle class (and sadly, rapidly approaching middle age) bloke living in the country I don't want to pretend that I've faced the institutional issues that many people face. I do know that it makes me angry, sad and frustrated by I also feel like expressing that is somehow patronising to those who have suffered at the coal face.
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  #1016  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:04 PM
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Thatís because racist people get offended when they see the BLM slogan because they add an ďonlyĒ at the beginning of it. They see it as an attack on white people (when anyone with half a brain cell can see it isnít) and get their backs up.

This cartoon sums it up best...

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This was a guy at our local protest yesterday... apparently was being very aggressive and threatening. Fits the MO.

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  #1017  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:06 PM
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I really hope I'm wrong (it has been known) but I fear in a week or two all these "this is so important it's worth the risk" takes are going to age very poorly when reality hits.

For whatever reason the disease hits ethnic minorities hardest, 15% of African Americans live with their grandparents and I wouldn't be surprised if that's replicated or even higher with British minorities. Speaking of the Americans, the whole 'old people vote, young people don't' deal cuts across racial lines, they really want as many black baby boomers alive as possible come November.

Realistic targets for the protests are successful prosecution of the four policemen who killed Floyd and some reform of the American police system (my suggestions would be no union, accountable to an elected civilian body, 3 years training). Anyone who has ambitions of destroying racism, abolishing the police, atoning for hundreds of years of inequality, reshaping society to fit their worldview, having other people suddenly show unquestioning obedience to their worldview...well, if you demand perfection just expect disappointment.

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  #1018  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:09 PM
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This was a guy at our local protest yesterday... apparently was being very aggressive and threatening. Fits the MO.

I imagine if push comes to shove he doesn't really believe that 'all lives matter' but I wouldn't like to find out.
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  #1019  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:23 PM
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Iím struggling to see what would be wrong with people no longer accumulating wealth once they have everything they need.

Why do we see accumulation of unnecessary wealth as a virtue?
Who's talking about unnecessary wealth? I am talking about creating jobs for people coming through. For example, if the man is a top employee he might provide income for his company, which in turn enables that company to engage more staff. If the man is the boss himself he can only employ staff if he chooses to continue operating the company. In a no inheritance scenario these key people might just choose to retire early
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:26 PM
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i think alot of people hope/ expect this to just go away.

I'm not sure what I can do about BLM. As a white, middle class (and sadly, rapidly approaching middle age) bloke living in the country I don't want to pretend that I've faced the institutional issues that many people face. I do know that it makes me angry, sad and frustrated by I also feel like expressing that is somehow patronising to those who have suffered at the coal face.
You don't really have to express anything, beyond standing alongside them, rather than just ignoring the issue
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