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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: MoM
Guaita 0 0%
Ward 27 13.57%
Dann 41 20.60%
Cahill 11 5.53%
van Aanholt 9 4.52%
Milivojevic 1 0.50%
Kouyaté * 0 0%
McArthur 51 25.63%
Townsend ** 8 4.02%
Zaha 6 3.02%
Ayew 8 4.02%
* McCarthy 3 1.51%
** Meyer 34 17.09%
Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:05 PM
TWELLSEagle TWELLSEagle is offline
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Guaita 3
Ward 3
Dann 5
Cahill 5
PVA 3
Jimmy 6
Kouyate 5
Luka 3
Zaha 5
Ayew 6
Townsend 5

Meyer 6
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  #142  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhc View Post
We play pretty much the same way, whoever the opposition is.

Yes, the players were poor last night, but I feel Roy must take the majority of the blame for such negative tactics against a Burnley side that were so hampered by injuries that they couldn't even fill a full bench.

To sit back and allow Burnley to dictate play, just threw away the initiative right from the first whistle.
Closing down was non-existent and that just gave them time to pick out their passes and retain possession.

On the other hand, Dyche had his players at our heals every time we gained possession. We were pressured into mistakes and they kept winning the ball back. Luka was particularly guilty. They were far more positive and deserved their win.

We need a fresh approach and some young hungry talent. I fear for us if we go another transfer window with little activity.

Thoroughly dejected this morning.
Look on the bright side Jerry at least you didn't have to go and witness it.🤗🤗..Hopefully our next manager in the away dugout?.Agree with subs situation only one used he obviously doesn't rate the bench .Kirby who apparently is a good future prospect doesn't even make the bench.🤔
is
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  #143  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:24 PM
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why did RH take off kouyate at half time when Luka was being isolated by mcneill from minute one? But all in all, it was a great interview for dyche
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  #144  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
Guaita 4 At fault for goal but lots of credit in his locker

PVA 6 Not enough quality. Need more from him as we are limited going forward
Dann 6 some good defending but gave it away a few times and nothing in their box
Cahill 6 He was fine, should have smashed his chance rather than side foot
Ward 6 defended ok, one good cross. Limited technically

Milivojevic 4 Did very little. Poor set pieces
McArthur 7 MOM tried to make things happen
Kouyate 5 limited footballer, but should have stayed on

Zaha 6 Doesn’t take them on anymore as he is a better player now, but needed him to in this one
Ayew 6 Not a centre forward, but good control. Should have been sent off
Townsend 5 Average at best

Subs

McCarthy 4 At fault for goal. Anything else
Meyer N/A Should have had more game time.

A few thoughts:

1. We missed Benteke. Someone to hold it up and be a focal point. He might be running dry in front of goal but at least he’s a presence and someone to play through. We play better when he plays. For all those who want Sakho and Benteke sold on because of wages, be careful what you wish for. Without Sakho there will be no-one to pass it out from the back. Without Benteke the ball will keep coming back into our half. There’s a reason CB and MS were Liverpool players and are among our highest earners: they are valuable players that can contribute when on the football pitch.

2. There’s no creativity. We know there isn’t. In today’s back 4 only PVA is decent technically. The centre backs are just about adequate in possession, but Ward isn’t. As a full back he’s one of our weakest links. We need more for modern football where they have a lot of the ball. Love Joel for his loyalty and service but it’s time he switched to centre back. The irony is I think he would be very good there as he’s better on the ball than most of our current centre backs, and more mobile. Then we move into midfield. CK can’t play football, LM is limited, McArthur tries and McCarthy is too small to play the holding role for us. They are all adequate but as a 3 the dichotomy between defence and attack is not right. The balance of the side is not right with that midfield 3, especially with the lack of quality at right back and up front. Speaking of which we have Zaha who is doubled up on, and very little in other attacking threat. Ayew is a willing runner and technically good but is not a striker, even though he’s a decent finisher. Townsend is paceless and we should have sold him last summer when Leicester were sniffing and he scored that worldie. Either that or he should switch to centre mid. He’s good enough technically to play there. But the fact remains that until we have a dual pacy threat in the front 3 we are going to struggle to break teams down.

3. We have lots of experience and it was nice to see a new corner routine - for once they’ve been working on something on the training ground. However the same old problems persist. For this game we should have brought Meyer into centre mid much earlier on, and perhaps given Pierrick a go. Or put Dann up front and brought on Sakho. Zaha was also too deep but it was always going to be difficult once they went 1-0 up. I feel for Roy because there’s only so much he can do with the players we have. I suspect even he is frustrated despite the normal defensive and conservative playing style he likes to set us up in.

The transfer window cannot come soon enough. We got away with it this season. If there’s no support added to take burden off Zaha we will be in a relegation dogfight. If we sell Zaha we will go down. Big window coming up.
I think that is a very fair summary.

McArthur was the only one who busted a gut to try and create and we missed Benteke for the reasons you state. He would have also kept Tarkowski and Mee occupied to allow our other players, particularly Ayew and Zaha to flourish, rather than get frustrated.

Credit to Burnley though, they did a Palace on us defensively and actually played better possession football than you would expect 1st half and they had the game's stand out attacking player in McNeil.
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  #145  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
McArthur isn’t an attacking midfielder. When did he last score or create anything? As good as he is, and he is very good, he’s not a creative option.

Meyer is worth playing in the centre ahead of two from the four central midfielders we have.

At least we aren’t looking over our shoulders...
Last game before the break he assisted Ayew's goal against Watford. He assisted Schlupps against Bournemouth and Ayew's equaliser at Arsenal.

Puts him top of the pile for assists this season alongside Zaha.
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  #146  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
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That's what's said every time; they never are.
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  #147  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Last game before the break he assisted Ayew's goal against Watford. He assisted Schlupps against Bournemouth and Ayew's equaliser at Arsenal.

Puts him top of the pile for assists this season alongside Zaha.
Not a very big pile, is it? 0 goals & 3 assists all season.
One could just as easily say that only two Palace players have more assists than Tomkins this season but no-one's suggesting he's our David Silva.

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That's what's said every time; they never are.
Well, quite.
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  #148  
Old 30-06-2020, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros 69 View Post
Meyer needs players in front of him to make him worthwhile.
Macca is our best attacking MF, he’s the only one that gets in the box (Luka and Kouyate don’t.)

Ayew is our best ball carrier and can hold onto the ball. If we were more attacking we could play:


———Benteke———
Wilf—Ayew—Andros
—Max———Luka

Or

———Benteke———
Wilf —————Ayew
Max—Luka—-Macca

But Roy will I’ll never play this.
Not being funny but I really hope he doesn't ever start that first option.

So our ball winning would be reliant upon Luka and the back 4? Pretty sure we would see a lot more goals
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  #149  
Old 30-06-2020, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
Not being funny but I really hope he doesn't ever start that first option.

So our ball winning would be reliant upon Luka and the back 4? Pretty sure we would see a lot more goals
I agree, it would be a stark change but continuing to play 3 DM is not working.
I think most of our problems are down to our attacking options, but when you have none and our full backs don’t go offer anything going forwards you need to look at the MF. Max showed in 15 Mins more than the rest of them in 90.
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  #150  
Old 30-06-2020, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayP41ace View Post
And boy do we need a new Right Back. Our right side has no pace, no skill, no trickery, no overlapping crosses, just a Right sided defender behind a right sided midfielder.

Which would be fine if our RIght midfielder can do all that and some, but Townsend just doesn’t, we have 2 players doing none of that.
Spot on.
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  #151  
Old 30-06-2020, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayP41ace View Post


The only thing worse than that piece of goalkeeping was our passing. Absolutely abysmal. Every 3rd touch was to a Burnley player.

Townsend needs the season to end, get over his injury, get rid of the 2 stone wind drag on his head, and have a full pre season to see if he is still a mid table prem player. Seems very slow in thought as well as movement.

Wilf had no interest in running at players when 1 on 1. I like that he has matured a bit and when he is double/triple marked he often draws them away and passes the ball to create space elsewhere, it’s what the top top players do very well, but he has removed the one on one work he usually thrives at. He’s not told to, there were 2 occasions where the bench were telling him to take his man on and he stopped and went backwards, when he would have done just that before. Probably needs the season to end and have a full pre season with Palace on his mind and not a transfer.

We really need a new winger, a proper CF that can hold the ball up and chip in with goals and a fast forward to run channels/get in behind to change the game up and get Sakho, Benteke, Wickham, and probably Meyer (unless we get the new winger and fast paced forward in) off the wage bill.
Our passing is abysmal because we are stacked with defensive mids who are not technically gifted. Meyer should have come on earlier, possibly at half time, or perhaps he should have even started the match because it was obvious Burnley were going to sit back and defend at some point. I think he could have been useful yesterday, but I've seen enough to think we could get someone in on his rumoured wages who is better; someone similar on the ball, but more creative, more of a goal threat with more pace and ability to go past.

I'm on record as saying I'd like Sakho to stay, but if we were to use the wages saved on creative and pacy midfielders/wingers I'd be happy for him to go. I'd also be happy for Benteke and Wickham to stay, but if Roy fancies someone else more, like Mitrovic for example, I'd be fine with it. As for Townsend, he's finished at this level. Pace has gone. It doesn't help having Ward behind him, but even if he had a more expansive right back there I don't think he would do well. He was already down on pace and this season it's just got worse and he's even more predictable. I'd be happy for us to sell him, but would there be any takers? Such a shame as he comes across as a great bloke.

Finally, Zaha. I agree with you that he should have attempted more take-ons last night. Do you think there is a chance he will stay? Would be great if we could improve our creative/pacy attacking options and keep Zaha. It would be the first time we have done that since FdB brought in RLC!
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  #152  
Old 30-06-2020, 02:45 PM
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Firstly Burnley arent half as bad as people are making out. We lost to a decent team last night. Seen them 4 or 5 times this season, they always look strong.

We were poor but we lost because of a goalkeeping error. That aside they never looked like scoring.

Dann and McArthur were the only ones to take much credit. Ayew should have been sent off. Luka was awful and Kouyate doesnt move enough, Macca must cover twice his distance. Zaha isnt doing enough, but Bardsley and Brownhill? did a great job on him. Townsend offered little and Ayew isnt a cf.

Domt get me wrong Benteke has been awful for the best part of 2 years and i wouldnt be sad to see him go....however he has improved of late and was a big part in those 4 wins. I hope he can get fit soon. Ayew plays really well off Benteke.
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  #153  
Old 30-06-2020, 02:46 PM
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Roy should have gone three at the back when it was clear Burnley turned up for a clean sheet and anything more was a bonus. Madness to have four at the back against their forward. Three at the back meant PVA and Ward could have been pushed further forward, and Kouyate could have dropped to CB.

I wish Roy would try to be a bit more fluid, even if it just gets the opposition to change their shape.
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  #154  
Old 30-06-2020, 02:47 PM
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Firstly Burnley arent half as bad as people are making out. We lost to a decent team last night. Seen them 4 or 5 times this season, they always look strong.

We were poor but we lost because of a goalkeeping error. That aside they never looked like scoring.

Dann and McArthur were the only ones to take much credit. Ayew should have been sent off. Luka was awful and Kouyate doesnt move enough, Macca must cover twice his distance. Zaha isnt doing enough, but Bardsley and Brownhill? did a great job on him. Townsend offered little and Ayew isnt a cf.

Domt get me wrong Benteke has been awful for the best part of 2 years and i wouldnt be sad to see him go....however he has improved of late and was a big part in those 4 wins. I hope he can get fit soon. Ayew plays really well off Benteke.
We lost because we have nothing going forward, we don’t create anything and never look like scoring.
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  #155  
Old 30-06-2020, 03:13 PM
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I dread being forced to watch home games on TV because vision is from the side. I don't know why, but Roy's approach to home games seems a bit more exciting from behind the goal. We always look a bit more threatening. Probably an optical illusion.
I feel sorry for those in the Arthur and Main Stand that have to watch that slow crabbing of the ball up-field from side-on.
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  #156  
Old 30-06-2020, 03:16 PM
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Trouble is, was clear it wasn't working but Roy only knows how to play one way, hence why he puts players like Meyer out of position, it's never worked or never will. We win games of the midfield are allowed to control the park but of you nullify that our threat is gone.

We desperately need some attacking players to allow us to play differently in situations like last night
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  #157  
Old 30-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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Miserable performance.

Worried about next season unless the right players are brought in.

We really missed out by not pursuing Adama Traoré and Saint Max as Wilf replacements. Wilf looks to me like he wants to go.
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  #158  
Old 30-06-2020, 03:25 PM
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The majority of this ageing squad really do need a full 7 days between fixtures. This unfortunately is rarely available, especially in the present moment.

In fact when you look at the 10 victories before lockdown:-

Man Utd a (followed 6 day break)
Aston Villa h 7 days
Norwich h 6
West Ham a 7
Burnley a 7
Bournemouth h 5
West Ham h 5
Newcastle h 14!
Brighton a 7
Watford h 7

Average rest need for a win: 7 days!

Not sure about this euro campaign.

(I suppose you could also throw in Bournemouth a 105)
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Last edited by Prince Phillip; 30-06-2020 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 30-06-2020, 03:43 PM
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BillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietBillyTKid came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
We always play the same way. Most matches we reduce to grinds with few chances fir either team. It’s been a good tactic for us with the points we have. However, it’s depressing when we do get beat as we don’t have the points consolation for lack of shots / entertainment.
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Old 30-06-2020, 03:53 PM
eastend eagle eastend eagle is offline
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eastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dieteastend eagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
I'm scratching my head as to why Meyer is getting plaudits from that performance. I genuinely didn't notice him do anything particularly encouraging. I'd love to be wrong.
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