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  #1  
Old 24-12-2017, 05:37 PM
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Time to update how penalties are awarded.

We have the ridiculous situation where week after week the main talking point on MOTD seems to be penalties.

This season we have the crackdown on simulation where the player gets a penalty by diving. but really this doesnt imo go far enough. What we need is not more draconian punishment for simulation but a re-evaluation of what a penalty is.

Some of the pundits continually trot out the "there was contact so it was a penalty" line.

I think it's time the decision is made on "did the defender impede the attacker". This would mean where there is contact but the attacker has started falling before contact then it's not a penalty. It also would mean where the attacker deliberately makes contact with the defender ie by sticking his leg out to make contact, this would not be a penalty.

In my opinion neither RLC or Dele Ali should have been awarded pens this week.
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Old 24-12-2017, 05:45 PM
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Won’t stop them being awarded though?

The referee normally hasn’t a clue who initiates contact, but if the attacker is on the floor they have to make a decision. Which is basically an instant educated guess in what was the blink of an eye.
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Old 24-12-2017, 05:46 PM
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Certainly agree that penalties seem to be becoming a massive thing for struggling teams.

So many games between lower prem teams are on a knife edge and are swung on these decisions

Don't envy the referees to be honest.
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Old 24-12-2017, 05:52 PM
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I think the only way you will clear up 95% of all Penalty decisions is by a video ref, relying on one pair of eyes who may not of even seen the incident is ridiculous really. Especially when most players are attempting to con the ref in nearly every game now

Also the majority of managers refuse to condemn their own players for blatant cheating, but in the next match will berate the officials if it happens against them. It’s a joke really
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Old 24-12-2017, 05:55 PM
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I think the only way you will clear up 95% of all Penalty decisions is by a video ref, relying on one pair of eyes who may not of even seen the incident is ridiculous really. Especially when most players are attempting to con the ref in nearly every game now

Also the majority of managers refuse to condemn their own players for blatant cheating, but in the next match will berate the officials if it happens against them. It’s a joke really
Definitely need an appeal system for pens.
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Old 24-12-2017, 06:31 PM
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About time they amended the rules to allow the away team at Old Trafford to be awarded them.
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Old 25-12-2017, 02:21 PM
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Third umpire for pens. Only solution. The attacker then runs the risk of getting a card for simulation.
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Old 25-12-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JAS78 View Post

Also the majority of managers refuse to condemn their own players for blatant cheating, but in the next match will berate the officials if it happens against them. It’s a joke really

Mourinho is the chief offender. Dreadfully bad sport who lives on a different planet to most.
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:03 PM
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Eithe stays how it is or video ref my view is there is no option but to have a video red but not sure how it should be used. Should it just be used when the ref thinks there may be a penalty ? Should the video red be able to alert the red if he thinks there should be a penalty ? Should each team be able to make video requests I a, against this.
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:05 PM
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Eithe stays how it is or video ref my view is there is no option but to have a video red but not sure how it should be used. Should it just be used when the ref thinks there may be a penalty ? Should the video red be able to alert the red if he thinks there should be a penalty ? Should each team be able to make video requests I a, against this.
Ref has an option to call on the third umpire
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:36 PM
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Eithe stays how it is or video ref my view is there is no option but to have a video red but not sure how it should be used. Should it just be used when the ref thinks there may be a penalty ? Should the video red be able to alert the red if he thinks there should be a penalty ? Should each team be able to make video requests I a, against this.
I don't disagree but as per the OP, there is still a lot of ambiguity about what a penalty actually is. There are so many penalties that will still be far from clear cut, with the rules as they are, even with a video replay that I don't think that will be especially helpful on its own.
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Old 25-12-2017, 08:36 PM
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The game should continue and the Video Ref checks diffeernt tv footage to look at potential penalty incidents. If he spots one, he signals to the ref and the next time there is a pause in play (throw in, goal kick etc.) he calls the ref over and shows him/ tells him. If the ref agrees, he gives a penalty. That is how I saw it used in a recent Japan v Brazil friendly and it seemed to work well.
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Old 25-12-2017, 11:59 PM
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The game should continue and the Video Ref checks diffeernt tv footage to look at potential penalty incidents. If he spots one, he signals to the ref and the next time there is a pause in play (throw in, goal kick etc.) he calls the ref over and shows him/ tells him. If the ref agrees, he gives a penalty. That is how I saw it used in a recent Japan v Brazil friendly and it seemed to work well.
What happens if the other side score in that time between the incident and next stoppage of play?
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Old 26-12-2017, 01:58 AM
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What happens if the other side score in that time between the incident and next stoppage of play?
Carnage?
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Old 26-12-2017, 02:31 AM
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All fouls in the penalty box should be indirect free kicks. Or at least direct free kicks from the spot of the foul. That should slow guys running around the box looking to fall down.
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Last edited by Funk Butter; 26-12-2017 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 26-12-2017, 04:05 AM
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What happens if the other side score in that time between the incident and next stoppage of play?
it becomes this season's A-League.
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Old 26-12-2017, 04:47 AM
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Just because the technology exists doesn't mean we should use it. Football is a game played by humans, reffed by humans, and watched by humans. I can live with the odd dodgy decision now and then.
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Old 26-12-2017, 04:57 AM
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Just because the technology exists doesn't mean we should use it. Football is a game played by humans, reffed by humans, and watched by humans. I can live with the odd dodgy decision now and then.
Can we put a bot to put an alert on this post for the next dodgy decision against Palace? (See you on Thursday)
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Old 26-12-2017, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by nicknackpalace View Post
Some of the pundits continually trot out the "there was contact so it was a penalty" line.

I think it's time the decision is made on "did the defender impede the attacker". This would mean where there is contact but the attacker has started falling before contact then it's not a penalty. It also would mean where the attacker deliberately makes contact with the defender ie by sticking his leg out to make contact, this would not be a penalty.

In my opinion neither RLC or Dele Ali should have been awarded pens this week.
The 'well there was contact' line is as lazy as 'i've seen 'em given' when pundits try to justify something. Football is a contact sport, there will be contact, not all contact is a foul. If you've seen them given, chances are it was a mistake then and using a mistake to justify another mistake leads us to where we are now.

I would agree with the idea that a defender has to impede the attacker, but not necessarily that it means a player cannot be on the way over already. Although I appreciate that will make it more difficult. If you've got a player moving at pace, seeing a challenge about to come in which he thinks will flatten him, is he going to let himself get smashed just to win a penalty or try to avoid it to limit injury? avoiding the contact is also being impeded as the defender's rash challenge forces the attacker to change direction, and if that challenge is nowhere near the ball, or does not get the ball, then it's still a foul. Any change shouldn't put players at risk, just to win a penalty. With this in mind, both the RLC and Alli penalties are fine with me because the tackles did impede the player.

And even this one: To view the link you have to Register or Login - it's Son bringing down Moses in the FA Cup. Yes Moses dives, but he has to, otherwise he's going to get clattered. Son's challenge is reckless, or at least out of control, and would wipe him out without taking the ball. It's a foul.
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