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  #31921  
Old 11-07-2019, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Maybe I have a lot of African DNA ; I like my KFC.
Do you seriously not see how if someone starts cracking jokes about black people and fried chicken how that would cause offence?
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  #31922  
Old 11-07-2019, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Could you imagine,something might actually be done about it,how well has it worked so far in Labours hands ?
Again, just because it hasnít been dealt with well doesnít mean I think thatís the answer. A complaints process should be accountable to the organisation.
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  #31923  
Old 11-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Do you seriously not see how if someone starts cracking jokes about black people and fried chicken how that would cause offence?
I can only speak for myself, and the answer is an honest no.

I know as many white people as black who like fried chicken.
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  #31924  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I can only speak for myself, and the answer is an honest no.

I know as many white people as black who like fried chicken.
Ok. But I wouldnít recommend you start cracking jokes about black people and fried chicken in front of black people. But maybe Iím wrong.
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  #31925  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:02 PM
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I can’t imagine myself cracking jokes about black people, whether chicken is involved or not!!

But thanks for the advice.
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  #31926  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I can only speak for myself, and the answer is an honest no.

I know as many white people as black who like fried chicken.
Lots of people like watermelons, but when the Boston Herald ran a cartoon with Barack Obama and watermelon flavoured toothpaste, they got an absolute ton of shit.

It’s not about how many people of any particular race like watermelons or fried chicken. But then you know that
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  #31927  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:13 PM
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No, really no.

If we follow your mantra then innocence is lost.
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  #31928  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Iím sure youíre the kind of cowardly bloke who would accept someone giving your partner racist abuse and excuse that as being charming.
My first reaction is unlikely to be to assault someone. You are clearly announcing a penchant for violence.
The scenario you portray is highly unlikely and as you biuld it childishly simplistic as are most of your utterings.
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  #31929  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Again, just because it hasnít been dealt with well doesnít mean I think thatís the answer. A complaints process should be accountable to the organisation.
Best argument I've seen for the police to investigate the police.
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  #31930  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
My first reaction is unlikely to be to assault someone. You are clearly announcing a penchant for violence.
The scenario you portray is highly unlikely and as you biuld it childishly simplistic as are most of your utterings.
As I said youíre a coward.
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  #31931  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:24 PM
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Best argument I've seen for the police to investigate the police.
Yeah because the police is the same as a political party.
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  #31932  
Old 11-07-2019, 09:26 PM
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As i said childishly simplistic.
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  #31933  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:26 PM
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  #31934  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Ok. But I wouldn’t recommend you start cracking jokes about black people and fried chicken in front of black people. But maybe I’m wrong.
I am curious about this food = racism theme. To every one who meets me they consider me white English. If they crack jokes about Sunday roasts or fish and chips I genuinely couldn’t care less. It’s not offensive.

If they know my heritage and I’m with my family and they crack a potato joke I am equally not offended. Every nation in the world has food associated with that nation. The food they eat forms a huge part of their culture and heritage and how they are defined in the world rightly or wrongly. I’d argue food is up there with religion in defining culture.

I certainly wouldn’t punch someone in the face if they asked my daughter, knowing her heritage; if she enjoyed a potato. Perhaps I’m on the verge of millennial politically incorrect? I’m not sure. I’d encourage her to repost rather than me decking someone. Chances are her learning a quick repost will get her far further in life than her dad getting arrested over a potato joke.

Last edited by Hpalace; 11-07-2019 at 11:08 PM.
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  #31935  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
I am curious about this food = racism theme. To every one who meets me they consider me white English. If they crack jokes about Sunday roasts or fish and chips I genuinely couldn’t care less. It’s not offensive.

If they know my heritage and I’m with my family and they crack a potato joke I am equally not offended. Every nation in the world has food associated with that nation. The food they eat forms a huge part of their culture and heritage and how they are defined in the world rightly or wrongly. I’d argue food is up there with religion in defining culture.

I certainly wouldn’t punch someone in the face if they asked my daughter if she enjoyed a potato. Perhaps I’m on the verge of millennial politically incorrect? I’m not sure.
I think it boils down to the intent behind the words doesn't it? Words on their own don't tend to mean much, until they're said with malice or with the intention to offend.

I'm the same as you in that personally I wouldn't be offended by potato related 'jokes' despite being from an Irish family, wouldn't particularly find them funny but wouldn't be offended. However are these jokes said by people with the same intent in comparison with those who have different skin colour? Because racist types love using non PC jokes to justify and normalise racism, even if not completely racist on the merit of just the words. Whenever people use stereotypical jokes about people of other races I tend to notice they're more likely to throw around derogatory words for people of said race, whilst not really noticing the same for Irish related stereotypes, but I am a lot younger and never experienced growing up in England during the Troubles when anti-Irish sentiment would've been at its peak, so I certainly wouldn't say I'm correct in the fact it never happened.

The only example I can really think of to explain what I mean is from Shane Meadows' film This is England. The racist skinhead in thick with the National Front coming across a group of young Asian kids playing football, proceeding to threaten them and then as they run off start shouting "better run home, Mumma's cooking curry", so you've got the malice and intent behind the words and were said by a character that feels quite alright in using derogatory racist terms like 'Paki'.

Last edited by TennesseeKing; 11-07-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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  #31936  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TennesseeKing View Post
I think it boils down to the intent behind the words doesn't it? Words on their own don't tend to mean much, until they're said with malice or with the intention to offend.

I'm the same as you in that personally I wouldn't be offended by potato related 'jokes' despite being from an Irish family, wouldn't particularly find them funny but wouldn't be offended. However are these jokes said by people with the same intent in comparison with those who have different skin colour? Because racist types love using non PC jokes to justify and normalise racism, even if not completely racist on the merit of just the words. Whenever people use stereotypical jokes about people of other races I tend to notice they're more likely to throw around derogatory words for people of said race, whilst not really noticing the same for Irish related stereotypes, but I am a lot younger and never experienced growing up in England during the Troubles when anti-Irish sentiment would've been at its peak, so I certainly wouldn't say I'm correct in the fact it never happened.

The only example I can really think of to explain what I mean is from Shane Meadows' film This is England. The racist skinhead in thick with the National Front coming across a group of young Asian kids playing football, proceeding to threaten them and then as they run off start shouting "better run home, Mumma's cooking curry", so you've got the malice and intent behind the words and were said by a character that feels quite alright in using derogatory racist terms like 'Paki'.
I grew up in London during the troubles. It was not that long ago and Iím not very old! But yes certainly I grew up in an era of ďis your dad a terroristĒ . I donít and will never find potato, leek, haggis, fish n chips, jokes offensive. Theyíre jokes. They are part of our culture and I donít see them as racist.

Personally I donít understand racist content in asking an Australian what he is going to cook on his gas bbq or an American what he is going to cook on his coal fired one. Food is culture and heritage.

ďIs your dad a terrorist?Ē Yeah thatís offensive
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  #31937  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:28 PM
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I grew up in London during the troubles. It was not that long ago and I’m not very old! But yes certainly I grew up in an era of “is your dad a terrorist” . I don’t and will never find potato, leek, haggis, fish n chips, jokes offensive. They’re jokes. They are part of our culture and I don’t see them as racist.

Personally I don’t understand racist content in asking an Australian what he is going to cook on his gas bbq or an American what he is going to cook on his coal fired one. Food is culture and heritage.

“Is your dad a terrorist?” Yeah that’s offensive
Yeah I think you're right on that being offensive. I was about 6 by the time of the Good Friday Agreement so would've missed a lot of that. My dad has told me a lot about it being a rather scary time whereby you'd be seen as being guilty for being in possession of an Irish sounding surname/accent.

I think that's exactly it though, if somebody was to turn around and start throwing lazy stereotypes at you alongside the is your dad a terrorist shtick, does the intention alongside the stereotype change how offensive it is? Do them words begin to offend as well?
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  #31938  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:52 PM
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Again, just because it hasn’t been dealt with well doesn’t mean I think that’s the answer. A complaints process should be accountable to the organisation.
What if the organisation heads are involved and keep reinstating the worst offenders only having to back down because of public outcry? Then the actual leader comes out of his house smiling with a lady shouting in spanish at reporters about smears with him having absolutely nothing to say,is that the leadership you actually crave for or does all this go out the window because you support Corbyn's politics/kind of socialism?....Seems it's too much of a circus to actually police yourselves?

In fact at the momemt Labour is being investigated by a civil rights organisation because Labour does not seem able for some odd reason to get rid of anti semitism which seemed to have jumped a "peg or two" around 2016 for another odd reason and increasing.
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  #31939  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:16 AM
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Crikey I’m 58 and had an Irish father and half Irish mother, me born in South London. Either I had a very sheltered life but I don’t recall anyone asking me if my dad was a terrorist! But maybe that’s because I was segregated in catholic schools! My dad liked a drink, hey come on! I am only making a stereotypical statement that all Irish men like a drink!

People today as so precious today about people putting a label on anything and then trying to find a slant to suit their own particular mindset and then shouting down anything that doesn’t fit it!

It’s very sad. Gotta say life was so much more simpler and pleasant before the internet. All you had to worry about, was if you had enough 2p’s.
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:33 AM
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I am curious about this food = racism theme. To every one who meets me they consider me white English. If they crack jokes about Sunday roasts or fish and chips I genuinely couldn’t care less. It’s not offensive.
Funny you should say that. We call the French "frogs" in a derogatory way, because they have a penchant for eating frogs legs. Would you call a Frenchman a "frog" to his face? I wouldn't recommend it - he may well take offence.

Do you know what they call us? The "roast beefs" - just like your comment above. Has a French person ever called you that to your face? Probably not - it would be perceived (and intended) as a derogatory term. If you want to avoid causing offence, you simply don't resort to such "dog-whistle" terms.

To enlighten Maz a bit more, the "fried chicken" incident comes from the winner of the US Masters getting the honour of choosing the menu for the following year's dinner event (I think it is held on the night before the commencement of the tournament and all the previous winners are invited). A South African golfer was being interviewed about Tiger Woods' victory and he said something along the lines of "looks like we have fried chicken on the menu next year then". The fact that the dude was South African probably didn't help of course, but the inference was that this was a slur of the first black winner of the Masters and the gentlemen was pretty much castigated for his comments. Maybe there were many people out there that didn't connect eating fried chicken with being black, but he obviously did and it did cause quite a furore.

So, as the other poster mentioned I would refrain from asking a black person if they like fried chicken, particularly in the US (and presumably in South Africa). You can't know whether the person you ask is going to presume intent or ignorance in such a situation.
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