Ukraine - Putin invades

[Latvian]

Originally Posted by Isle of Wight

Where the hell are France or the Netherlands ?

How does that compare to the U.K. foreign aid budget for the same timeframe?

[Isle of Wight]

Originally Posted by Latvian

How does that compare to the U.K. foreign aid budget for the same timeframe?

[Stinger1]

Where have all the escalation worriers disappeared to?


Moscow blames Ukrainian missile attack for deaths in south Russian city

July 3 (Reuters) - At least three people were killed and dozens of residential buildings damaged in the Russian city of Belgorod near the Ukraine border, the regional governor said, in what Moscow said was a Ukrainian missile attack.

At least 11 apartment buildings and 39 private houses were damaged, including five that were destroyed, Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov posted on the Telegram messaging app.

"I emphasise that this missile attack had been intentionally planned and was launched at the civilian population of Russian cities," Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said.

There was no immediate comment from Ukraine.

Konashenkov said Russian air defences had destroyed three Tochka-U missiles, but fragments of one of them fell on residential buildings. He said they had also destroyed explosives-laden Ukrainian drones approaching Kursk, another city in southern Russia.

Reuters could not independently confirm the claims.

Since Russia invaded its neighbour on Feb. 24, there have been numerous reports of attacks on Belgorod and other regions bordering Ukraine, with Moscow accusing Kyiv of carrying out the strikes.

Ukraine has not claimed responsibility but has described the incidents at weapons stores and other sites as "karma" for Russia's invasion.

Belgorod is a city of nearly 400,000 people, some 40 km (25 miles) north of the border with Ukraine. Regional governor Gladkov said at least four people were injured and two hospitalised in the latest incident, including a 10-year-old boy.

"The sound was so strong that I jumped up, I woke up, got very scared and started screaming," a resident of the city told Reuters, describing blasts that took place around 3 a.m. local time. "All the windows in our house were shattered."

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[El Aguila]

I find your approach to escalation very eerie - as if you welcome it.
The objective with a war ought to be to minimise human suffering and death, and stop it as soon as possible.

[Isle of Wight]

But doesn’t a part of you think they should have a taste of their own Medicine? Eye for and eye and all that? Putin will get even more angry but what more of a shitstorm can he bring without forcing Western involvement

[Stinger1]

Originally Posted by El Aguila

I find your approach to escalation very eerie - as if you welcome it.
The objective with a war ought to be to minimise human suffering and death, and stop it as soon as possible.

It’s because I’ve never believed there was ever much of an escalation risk.

Putin is a KGB agent at heart and wants to operate shadows.

He’s already bitten off more than he chew and doesn’t want any further escalation despite whatever threats he may make.

[El Aguila]

There is a risk of escalation and I think we all know it. The question is, where. Bomb Moscow and they will bomb London.

[ddfunk]

Originally Posted by Isle of Wight

But doesn’t a part of you think they should have a taste of their own Medicine? Eye for and eye and all that? Putin will get even more angry but what more of a shitstorm can he bring without forcing Western involvement

Everyone needs to be clear. Putin is the enemy. Not the Russian people.

Russian's are already told constantly that the whole world is against them.

[Stinger1]

Originally Posted by El Aguila

There is a risk of escalation and I think we all know it. The question is, where. Bomb Moscow and they will bomb London.

Clearly there is a line, but giving Ukraine a few rusty MiGs or missile systems or even like this instance of a few bombs dropping into a Russian town on the border was never going to escalate things like many on here claimed.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by ddfunk

Everyone needs to be clear. Putin is the enemy. Not the Russian people.

Russian's are already told constantly that the whole world is against them.

So how do you stop Putin? Kicking his forces in Ukraine doesn't seem to work and I don't blame the Ukrainians as every day Russian forces target their families in non military locations and let us not !ose sight than most Russians support Putin.

[El Aguila]

I’m good with trusting the judgement of our intelligence service on where the lines are.

[bigend1]

Originally Posted by AJ

So how do you stop Putin? Kicking his forces in Ukraine doesn't seem to work and I don't blame the Ukrainians as every day Russian forces target their families in non military locations and let us not !ose sight than most Russians support Putin.

Doing everything possible to hamper putins plans and aggression while not crossing the line. Not only to stop it escalating into ww3 but any direct hostility against Russia will massively fuel his propaganda and for many prove him right all along.

The sanctions are biting hard and will get worse. The west moving away from Russian energy supplies will make that far worse with time. The west must also minimise any incentives others like China, the middle east etc have to deal with them.

As the Russian people become ever more isolated and lose thier quality of life they will seek change from within. He'll lose what remains of his support in government and military. The slow undermining of his leadership will work, direct action will unite Russia and fire up the bear.

The downside of that is it limits help to Ukraine to supplies and training. They will do the bleeding but it's the only way to end this in the long term

[StonePenge]

I wonder how Putin’s propagandists will be spinning Johnson’s departure to the Russian people.It’s hard for them to say he was dumped for being a liar because if all the liars were purged from Russian public life the Kremlin would be empty.

[Stellavista]

Originally Posted by StonePenge

I wonder how Putin’s propagandists will be spinning Johnson’s departure to the Russian people.It’s hard for them to say he was dumped for being a liar because if all the liars were purged from Russian public life the Kremlin would be empty.

He hates Russia, according to some in the Kremlin, so good riddance.

[StonePenge]

Originally Posted by Stellavista

He hates Russia, according to some in the Kremlin, so good riddance.

Of course. But will they be saying why he was booted out ?

[Nth Kent Eagle]

Originally Posted by StonePenge

Of course. But will they be saying why he was booted out ?

I don't know if they care e.g this list shows that the UK is way down the list of countries funding and enabling Putin by buying his oil and gas. To view the link you have to Register or Login

But I suppose Putin could spin it that is is all very well for countries to support Ukraine but their electorates will turn on the leaders if oil, gas and food goes up (which it will). You've already seen Macron weakened, Scholz reputation damaged, Johnson gone and Biden looks in trouble in the mid terms meanwhile Putin just sails on.

[Golf Boy]

I thought the sanctions were supposed to cripple him. Haven’t heard a thing about them recently. They seem to be hurting us more than him.

[Stinger1]

Originally Posted by Golf Boy

I thought the sanctions were supposed to cripple him. Haven’t heard a thing about them recently.

There’s a proposal to limit the price that Russian oil can be bought to $40-60.

That will sting.

[dogstar721]

Originally Posted by Isle of Wight

But doesn’t a part of you think they should have a taste of their own Medicine? Eye for and eye and all that? Putin will get even more angry but what more of a shitstorm can he bring without forcing Western involvement

I think it was somewhat of an inevitability, especially following the loss of territory. Its very difficult to 'maintain' the moral highground, when representing people who are being killed by such tactics.

In many ways the bombing of German cities in WWII was largely accepted and politically motivated, rather than serving military purpose. The Ukraine has been pushed back significantly, by retaliating in kind, its more about being 'seen to do something' - its 'good' for morale.

I doubt the Ukrainian population are too worried about Russian civilians being struck

[AJ's right boot]

Awesome to see so many ammunition dumps going up in smoke. HIMARS doing their thing