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  #221  
Old 13-08-2019, 08:52 PM
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Once again regardless of allegations he thought it was ok to party and have a friendship with a bloke who was a serial child abuser. On tax payers money.

Dunno about anyone else on here but I wouldn’t be mates with someone like that.
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  #222  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:03 PM
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  #223  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:30 PM
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  #224  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
That is not guilt.
But it is a serious allegation, especially given the conviction of Epstein - and one that should be properly, and independently investigated.
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  #225  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
But it is a serious allegation, especially given the conviction of Epstein - and one that should be properly, and independently investigated.
Why?

Is this in the public interest?

Would you personally pay for its investigation?

"Prince Andrew behaved badly by touching my tits alleges woman."

"I didn't do it says Prince Andrew."

Investigate that if you can.
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  #226  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
I think the issue of rape and consent is one which we are not really disagreeing about - no consent is always and has always been wrong - what is being looked at here is the rather murky area of what is considered acceptable and at what age do people accept you cannot give consent (as opposed to what the law actually says).

I know you may think this is trivialising things but bear with me.

Drink driving is a big no no it is a crime now - it was a crime then. But it was seen differently - I would surprised if there is anyone here over the age of 50 who did not drink drive at some point - I have to admit I did - I drove home very slowly (because I knew I was not quite sober enough to drive). If you got caught you were considered unlucky unless you were really drunk and it was really bad. I went round in a group that included a civilian who worked for the police. He always drove because he knew that if he was stopped by the police they'd let him off- he wouldn't "overdo" it - just three pints or so. All I am saying is it was not dissimilar with underage sex. As long as no one was objecting it wasn't seen as that bad.

I have to say I'd be interested in the breakdown in the figures you have - how old were the men and how old the girls - what type of relationship did they have - who did do the reporting - how many convictions were there compared to matters that were not taken further.
I think like Drink Driving, back then, its one of those things, where a lot of people should be looking back and realising just how serious what they did actually was - rather than dismissing the actions as ok.

For Unlawful sexual intercourse charges to be brought, either the girl, witnesses or the family of the girl would have had to come forward and lay a complaint against an individual and I doubt without testimony of the victim, that there would be much chance of conviction or the case proceeding.

I don't have a full break down of offenders, sadly, just a set of reported figures for each year from 1898 to 1998 of each offence on statute during that period. I shall try to see what I can find in the OU's Criminology library
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  #227  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
Why?

Is this in the public interest?

Would you personally pay for its investigation?

"Prince Andrew behaved badly by touching my tits alleges woman."

"I didn't do it says Prince Andrew."

Investigate that if you can.
Should all word against word cases be dropped?
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  #228  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:49 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
Why?

Is this in the public interest?

Would you personally pay for its investigation?

"Prince Andrew behaved badly by touching my tits alleges woman."

"I didn't do it says Prince Andrew."

Investigate that if you can.
The allegation that Epstein procured her and pressured her into sexual activity with Prince Andrew is probably more what I'd say was public interest and of value investigating properly.

This is a very dodgy case with a lot of people having offered evidence in return for immunity, against Epstein on the trafficking charges. There is a lot here that needs to be looked into, and that includes the dubious question of why a Crown Prince of the Royal Family was spending time with a convicted child sex offender who was known for throwing sex parties - after his conviction.

Maybe there is nothing, but given there is an awful lot of undisclosed evidence and clearly other people the feds are interested in, I wouldn't want to jump either way on whether or not there is more.
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  #229  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:50 PM
GorBlimey GorBlimey is offline
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Should all word against word cases be dropped?

If there is no supporting evidence then yes.


That bloke who was making all manner of allegations about child molestation and even murder is a prime example.


Ruined a number of lives.
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  #230  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:52 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
That is not guilt.
But the bit about being coerced into sexual relations with Prince Andrew would be the basis of a Conspiracy charge. That's a pretty serious accusation worthy of actual investigation
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  #231  
Old 13-08-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
The allegation that Epstein procured her and pressured her into sexual activity with Prince Andrew is probably more what I'd say was public interest and of value investigating properly.

This is a very dodgy case with a lot of people having offered evidence in return for immunity, against Epstein on the trafficking charges. There is a lot here that needs to be looked into, and that includes the dubious question of why a Crown Prince of the Royal Family was spending time with a convicted child sex offender who was known for throwing sex parties - after his conviction.

Maybe there is nothing, but given there is an awful lot of undisclosed evidence and clearly other people the feds are interested in, I wouldn't want to jump either way on whether or not there is more.

I guess you're American.
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  #232  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:02 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
If there is no supporting evidence then yes.


That bloke who was making all manner of allegations about child molestation and even murder is a prime example.


Ruined a number of lives.
The police f**ked the case up there, and no mistaking. Almost as if they were trying to make up for the fact they spent decades turning a blind eye to systemic child sex abuse across the UK, and ignoring any number of accusations against Jimmy Savile, who abused at least 400 children.

And yes, you would need more than just a persons say so. You'd need to be able to secure a reasonable chance of conviction for the CPS to go to trial.

Problem is on both sides of the fence you have innocent peoples lives being ruined. In truth I'm not so sure how many lives Carl Beech actually ruined with his accusations - Especially given the level of exoneration that followed - Very few of those accused by him were still alive.

Probably the most affected was Harvey Proctor - Who had, I would say unfairly, been persecuted in the media, and prosecuted for sex with underage males (as the age of consent at the time was 21).

The problem with the Beech affair, wasn't the accusations, it was the how the police went about investigating them without first looking into the reliability of their own star witness (a convicted ********* himself) and testing the credibility of his claims. Once they did start looking, the case fell apart.
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  #233  
Old 13-08-2019, 10:03 PM
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I guess you're American.
Ha - No, I was writing something else about Saudi Arabian royalty and I think I got my two blocks of text confused
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  #234  
Old 14-08-2019, 12:00 AM
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  #235  
Old 14-08-2019, 12:03 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
If there is no supporting evidence then yes.


That bloke who was making all manner of allegations about child molestation and even murder is a prime example.


Ruined a number of lives.
You might be ok with people partying and going round with serial child abusers on tax payers money. Others arenít.

That happened.
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  #236  
Old 14-08-2019, 01:37 AM
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"Taxpayer's money"


I resent a shitload of stuff funded by taxpayer's money but we're hardly paying Prince Andrew to be "partying and going round with serial child abusers."


F*cking hell, get a grip and worry about the real problems in the world.
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  #237  
Old 14-08-2019, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
No if you carried out sexual assault or were a nonce that would be just as out of order as Prince Andrew. Thought that would be obvious.
Great stuff, I got the impression and I do not know why but to me it seemed you only wanted to slag off er I mean talk about Prince Andrew when the conversation expanded as it does on most threads...My mistake apologies.
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  #238  
Old 14-08-2019, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think like Drink Driving, back then, its one of those things, where a lot of people should be looking back and realising just how serious what they did actually was - rather than dismissing the actions as ok.

For Unlawful sexual intercourse charges to be brought, either the girl, witnesses or the family of the girl would have had to come forward and lay a complaint against an individual and I doubt without testimony of the victim, that there would be much chance of conviction or the case proceeding.

I don't have a full break down of offenders, sadly, just a set of reported figures for each year from 1898 to 1998 of each offence on statute during that period. I shall try to see what I can find in the OU's Criminology library
I suspect that it could be something to do with the sheer weight of numbers in actual occurrence compared to today.

IE: Mum and Dad finding out what Susie has really been getting up to when out with Tracey and her mates could be one scenario for complaint. Getting Preggers could be another.


As for Prince Andrew, well obviously he's a pretty bad judge of character, could even be a bad character himself. There again I wouldn't like any UK Royal hanging out with any of the Saudis or Donald Trump.

That upper power mob is quite despicable all round.... I Personally can think of dozens more questionable people of authority in the UK than Prince Andrew though. Still looks like he should be brought to task at some level to me just on association, in some ways this is already happening as his already tainted reputation is pretty much in tatters now.
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  #239  
Old 14-08-2019, 07:20 AM
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Great stuff, I got the impression and I do not know why but to me it seemed you only wanted to slag off er I mean talk about Prince Andrew when the conversation expanded as it does on most threads...My mistake apologies.
Apology accepted. Especially as the issue of abuse has had a harrowing effect on people very close to me.

Yes I think there is an issue with the rich and powerful and specific issues about that but clearly this is an issue across society.

Again though itís good you apologised, thanks.
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  #240  
Old 14-08-2019, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
"Taxpayer's money"


I resent a shitload of stuff funded by taxpayer's money but we're hardly paying Prince Andrew to be "partying and going round with serial child abusers."


F*cking hell, get a grip and worry about the real problems in the world.
Thatís exactly whatís happened. His whole life his paid for by the taxpayer. And he was partying with a convicted serial child abuser who he also accepted money from. Even papers like The Telegraph has come out and said this is an issue. He has now been accused of sexual assault himself.

Again you might wanna dismiss all that, others donít.
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