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  #21  
Old 20-03-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
Their friends?
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  #22  
Old 20-03-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fang View Post
I've always fancied forestry or dry stonewalling but I'm struggling to find opportunities in South London.

Yes, many years ago I retrained under the auspices of the TOPS scheme (an adult version of YOPS if anyone remembers that) and was presented with a list of trades and skills I could sign up for. I quite fancied the saddler course but as I lived in Kings Cross at the time I thought the lack of horses locally would be a bit limiting. Never occurred to me that the thriving local sex trade might have a demand for leather harnesses too. Anyway, I trained instead as a computer programmer and technology has been my living for most of the subsequent 30-odd years.
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  #23  
Old 20-03-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
Even worse people-managers
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  #24  
Old 20-03-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
This is a personal bug-bear of mine. There is very little recognition that management is a skill like any other and is unrelated to how good you may have been at your primary trade. So many times I have seen someone promoted because they were good at their primary task - programming, sales, finance, whatever - on the mistaken assumption that they would then be good at managing other people who performed that task. In so many cases the company has lost a good worker and gained a poor manager.
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  #25  
Old 20-03-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
I do shift work and I donít mind it. You get a lot of days off compared to 9-5ers, though nights certainly make you question if itís worth it

I think a mundane job is ok for a while, but not long-term. I would say my job has been mundane for a few years because Iíve been doing it for too long. Because our team is now being treated like shit by management, itís time for me to make a change.

Iíve done shift work for 18 years... I feel like Iíve hit a wall... especially when I hit my 40ís. One week Iím getting up at 3am... the next week Iím getting home at 3am. My Mrs does shift work.. and having two parents doing shift work is a nightmare. I also have a job where they can change your shift by 3 hours either way ( a 7am start could change to a 4am or 10am start). Last yr we had 3 weekends off as a family... my Mrs loves her job.. so itís me thatíll have to change.
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  #26  
Old 20-03-2018, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
My boss has gone to where he is based on 2 main things:

1) He licks the right arses.

2) He is a superb bullshitter. He sounds so sincere, and an expert at what he is talking about. He has had me fooled a lot in the past but as time has gone on, I’ve realised that he’s just a huge blagger.

Number 1 is what I don’t get though. Surely it’s very easy to see through this, yet people above just seem to love having their egos massaged. Bizarre.
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  #27  
Old 20-03-2018, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
About 20 years ago the project I was working on got cancelled, and HR offered me a job as a (different programme) departmental manager. It was that or out the door.

I never wanted to be a supervisor, let alone a manager, but took it anyway while I looked for other work.

Basically showed up on a Monday and I'm a manager.... no training, no advise or support from HR. Fortunately the programme was pretty low key and was a good team that didn't need too much managing, but I always felt this was wrong. It stuck me at the time this was the problem with managers... they are placed in these positions without management skills training, personality comparability checks or job history consideration.

Over here in the industry I was in, there are becoming a lot of ex-military people coming straight in from service as managers. It sounds a good idea on paper, but I found very few if any good people managers.
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  #28  
Old 20-03-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by art malice View Post
Even worse people-managers
Or people who don't want to promote anyone who might threaten their own position......
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  #29  
Old 20-03-2018, 04:31 PM
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Or people who don't want to promote anyone who might threaten their own position......
A tale told to me was that many years ago managers promoted the 'bright young things' under them so that the manager could take the credit for their work as his own. But nowadays managers often promote much less capable people so they don't threaten their position or make them look stupid.
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  #30  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LN1 View Post
A tale told to me was that many years ago managers promoted the 'bright young things' under them so that the manager could take the credit for their work as his own. But nowadays managers often promote much less capable people so they don't threaten their position or make them look stupid.
A bit like Ferguson and Moyes
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  #31  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
It seems weird that so often poor people managers become bosses. Who makes these decisions?
Often its the nature of the business they work in. People tend to have to pursue management careers because they plateau in terms of options, despite being very good at a job - you reach a point where career wise, the only option is to become a manager, rather than a do'er - and the entry tends to be on the basis of how well you did as a do'er.

One of the primary reasons why I became self employed is that I don't really want to manage staff - I don't enjoy it and its not what I liked about working in IT - and this is true of a lot of people I've worked with. They hit a point where regardless of how good they are at the job - the only option is to become leaders and managers - regardless of how well suited they are to the job (which in IT can be utterly unsuited to the point of putting some one who is on the ASD spectrum in charge of teams of people).

Then managers tend to get promoted to a position where they can do less or no damage, which is equally absurd (i.e. you get promoted to a point where your staff basically do all the real work, and you spend the day in meetings where you're really just relaying the meeting to your staff and then making sure they hit deadlines)
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  #32  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LN1 View Post
A tale told to me was that many years ago managers promoted the 'bright young things' under them so that the manager could take the credit for their work as his own. But nowadays managers often promote much less capable people so they don't threaten their position or make them look stupid.
More cynically, I think that people get promoted, and then take the people with them (by promoting them) who essentially were responsible for that promotion. Which again leads to people being promoted into positions they're not really capable of doing. This also tends to managers fighting to prevent staff being promoted except in line with themselves (as if you have real talent, you don't want to let it go).

After all, some employees are absolutely responsible for success - where as others are basically a liability. You have to choose one to be promoted - The sensible choice is the liability, and then on the basis of you then hitting higher targets and success, get promoted and put the great employee into your job (or take them with you). Its harsh, but very true of how companies work - Especially if you don't get to choose who comes into your team.

Its not uncommon for managers to have no real choice over who gets promoted, recruited and who gets what pay rise. They just get to catch the flack.

Often the only way of getting rid of 'deadweight' is to promote them out of a successful team.
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  #33  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:36 PM
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Good posts, dogstar.
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  #34  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Often its the nature of the business they work in. People tend to have to pursue management careers because they plateau in terms of options, despite being very good at a job - you reach a point where career wise, the only option is to become a manager, rather than a do'er - and the entry tends to be on the basis of how well you did as a do'er.

One of the primary reasons why I became self employed is that I don't really want to manage staff - I don't enjoy it and its not what I liked about working in IT - and this is true of a lot of people I've worked with. They hit a point where regardless of how good they are at the job - the only option is to become leaders and managers - regardless of how well suited they are to the job (which in IT can be utterly unsuited to the point of putting some one who is on the ASD spectrum in charge of teams of people).

Then managers tend to get promoted to a position where they can do less or no damage, which is equally absurd (i.e. you get promoted to a point where your staff basically do all the real work, and you spend the day in meetings where you're really just relaying the meeting to your staff and then making sure they hit deadlines)
Great post... echo my thoughts anyway.
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  #35  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fang View Post
I've always fancied forestry or dry stonewalling but I'm struggling to find opportunities in South London.
I'd love to have a crack at dry stone walling, it's always struck me as something that looks hugely satisfying.
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  #36  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
Over here in the industry I was in, there are becoming a lot of ex-military people coming straight in from service as managers. It sounds a good idea on paper, but I found very few if any good people managers.
Same happened in the NHS in the early 1980s and, at the time, people thought 'wow, so decisive'; however, many couldn't adapt to a culture where a senior managers decision may be questioned and just expected people to carry out their orders, however bizarre.
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  #37  
Old 20-03-2018, 05:49 PM
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I'd love to have a crack at dry stone walling, it's always struck me as something that looks hugely satisfying.


I see you more as a school teacher from the 1970's.

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  #38  
Old 20-03-2018, 07:42 PM
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I see you more as a school teacher from the 1970's.

Or workingfor the Ministry of censorship, circa 1940īs.
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  #39  
Old 20-03-2018, 07:44 PM
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I see you more as a school teacher from the 1970's.


That's potentially libellous isn't it?
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  #40  
Old 20-03-2018, 07:51 PM
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Hopefully.
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