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  #61  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:31 AM
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Our fantastic politicians were not decisive enough at the time - there were promises of withdrawing the British passports of people going out to join ISIS but no legislation was ever passed so the law is very much on the side of the returning British passport holders. I can't see how they can now stop her returning and I suspect there is little she could be charged with here that would stand up in court (I don't think anyone is suggesting that she was a fighter out there). It's clearly a concern for the security services in the UK though as she has said that she has no regrets about going and wasn't fazed at all about seeing the heads of beheaded people in bins etc.

Moral of the story - we need a completely new set of politicians in this country. The current lot are a waste of space as has been proved over Brexit.
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  #62  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
Wow.

And we’ve banned Elgin.
Yes, for threatening people.

What's your point?
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  #63  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
The BBC article mentions withdrawing British citizenship from fighters, effectively leaving them stateless. Not sure how the rules work beyond what the article mentions
from the Guardian:

More than 150 suspected jihadists and criminals have been stripped of their citizenship and banned from returning to the UK, it has been reported.

Ministers stepped up the “deprivation orders” amid fears that the collapse of Islamic State would lead to an influx of militants from Syria, according to the Sunday Times.

Quoting official figures and security sources, the newspaper said more than 40 suspects had their right to a passport removed this year, with about 30 targeted since March.

Those who have had their citizenship removed include gunmen and “jihadi brides” who travelled to Syria, it added.

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.
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  #64  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Yes, for threatening people.

What's your point?
That saying “she should go to a Muslim country” is f*cking outrageous.

Also, what is a Muslim country?
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  #65  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
That saying “she should go to a Muslim country” is f*cking outrageous.

Also, what is a Muslim country?
Outrageous why?

And Muslim countries are countries where Islam in the dominant faith, much like Christian countries, but you knew that.
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  #66  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
That saying “she should go to a Muslim country” is f*cking outrageous.

Also, what is a Muslim country?
"Islamic Republic of Iran" is a possibility.
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  #67  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by little al View Post
Outrageous why?

And Muslim countries are countries where Islam in the dominant faith, much like Christian countries, but you knew that.
I don't pretend to be an expert, but Shi'ite and Sunni muslims don't tend to agree, and if I had to guess ISIS and their caliphate might not go down very well with any Government.
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  #68  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I don't pretend to be an expert, but Shi'ite and Sunni muslims don't tend to agree, and if I had to guess ISIS and their caliphate might not go down very well with any Government.
^^^

There is no such thing as a Muslim country.

FWIW I wouldn’t want her back in the U.K. I would imagine that there international laws and treaties which would cover such issues so my view is probably irrelevant.

Telling her to “go to a Muslim country” is so dumb it’s untrue.
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  #69  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
That saying “she should go to a Muslim country” is f*cking outrageous.

Also, what is a Muslim country?
It might well be outrageous, but that's nothing to do with Elgin
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  #70  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.[/I]
Just had a quick read of section 66 of the 2014 Immigration Act.

They don't need to have dual nationality currently, just that...

the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory


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  #71  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
It might well be outrageous, but that's nothing to do with Elgin
This is true.

I’m just in the habit of pointing out what I see as hypocrisy.
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Last edited by Wolfnipplechips; 14-02-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  #72  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post

Are we that insecure that we don't think we can deradicalise a 19 year old?
Do we even know if deradicalisation actually works?
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  #73  
Old 14-02-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Just had a quick read of section 66 of the 2014 Immigration Act.

They don't need to have dual nationality currently, just that...

the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory


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I think there was a recent Judge's ruling about it. Not sure deciding that another country is likely to accept him or her without asking them is likely to bear much examination.
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  #74  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:00 AM
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Yes. She's a British citizen, and so is her unborn child.

However, this should not exempt her from the law, or any prosecution - or interview with the intelligence services (she may have very useful information on other individuals).

Realistically, she's f**ked. Syria has no British Consulate and no representation in the camp she is in. If she does come back, she's likely to be looking at 5-10 years in prison and losing her child (but it will live).

She was groomed at the age of 15, by adults and to some extent may well be a victim of IS - in much the same way that young girls in the UK have been groomed - There should be some sympathy for her plight in all but the most jaded hearts (that doesn't absolve her of blame for what she may have done, but it does frame a context that to some, possible all, extent, she may be a victim of IS.

I'm more concerned about her unborn child to be honest.
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  #75  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Just had a quick read of section 66 of the 2014 Immigration Act.

They don't need to have dual nationality currently, just that...

the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory


Learn something new everyday.
Practically though, unless they have dual nationality, its almost impossible to get another country to take someone without some incentive. Best place for terrorists though is probably in prison, not living free in some s**ty backwater where they might well end up free, and engaging in terrorism.
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  #76  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
This is true.

I’m just in the habit of pointing out what I see as hypocrisy.
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  #77  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst300 View Post
"Islamic Republic of Iran" is a possibility.
Shia Iran and Wahhabi IS are mortal enemies and the latter don't even see the former as Muslim.
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  #78  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:07 AM
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Haha, absolutely not.

Horrible, filthy, radical scum. Hope she dies.
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  #79  
Old 14-02-2019, 11:09 AM
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:12 AM
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Outrageous why?

And Muslim countries are countries where Islam in the dominant faith, much like Christian countries, but you knew that.
That's not really true though. The UK has a dominant faith of Christianity, but its not a Christian country, its a secular democracy. The danger of labelling countries and national identity in terms like Muslim Country / Christian Country is that it supports the concept of Theocracy (which Iran technically is).

I wouldn't want to describe NI as being a Catholic Country or a Protestant Country (and calling it a Christian country suggests that its unified along Religious lines).

It simplifies concepts down to a level that suits the rhetoric of populists and Evangelical politics.

Simplification of what is, and isn't a 'Nations Identity' generally feeds into dangerous politics and radicalisation (of which the likes of IS themselves are the extreme end of a scale - that's their justification of barbarity and horror was to create a Sunni Muslim Caliphate - a political rhetoric that led to mass murder, rape and horrors on a grand scale) - The idea of a Sunni Muslim Caliphate is the kind of thing that attracted recruits into the rhetoric of indoctrination and radicalisation - Not the idea of raping Yazdi women or cutting heads off of anyone who disagrees.

Radicalisation begins with things that we 'agree with' and progresses the individual towards justification of the unjustifiable. The same thing was seen in Bosna, where neighbours and friends of decades ended up committing genocide.
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